Flameblast nerf

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

Funny thing is, my incinerator build has better clear speed than KB just because it melts everything, be it multi-target and single-target (mostly bosses fall in this category). I find KB meh when trying to target one thing at a time compare to Power Siphon at high level mapping.

Edit: I do understand KB is a very popular choice these days, but I just cannot find it good enough to deal with bosses. I mostly use Power Siphon against bosses since it can kill them much faster.

That must be world-best incinerator you got there, by quite a margin, post a build guide somewhere. Incinerate is good, but it's not in the same league as a well-geared KB build.

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mucker wrote:

The point of flame blast has always been the big damage / vulnerable trade off

Oh really?
Before the block nerf I ran 50% block 75% spellblock. It was nearly unkillable.

Now I switched it for full CI ES without block, it has 10k ES with meh gear, and now oneshots map bosses with Vaal RF as well, also nearly unkillable, so the nerf pretty much had no effect on clearspped.
I can actually survive GMP Freeze Pulse on damage increase maps from rares that instantly kill characters who have less than 6k life.

Before the nerf I was oneshoting any blue pack and yellow mobs with FB stage 2.
After nerf, at worst it burns during 0.3 sec before dying.

Like any spell, you need to build crit and use shock effect and you melt everything.

If GGG wants us to use more than stage 1 or stage 2, they need to nerf it by at least 50 %.

Here's what FB needs:
1. Base radius reduced to 5, +3 per stage. This is a much smaller initial AoE with a much higher AoE growth rate. For reference, 8 is the radius of a Fireball explosion (the smallest AoE in the game at present), and 30 is the base radius of Discharge. This would make stage 1 exclusively a single-target affair, rather than hitting a small group as it does now.
2. 80 or 90% more damage per stage, not 110%. Since Flameblast builds so often incorporate ignite proliferation, and change #1 makes stages more about AoE, it is silly to give stage such a damage emphasis. A sub-100 stat here encorages more skillful use of the skill.
3. Even with the above two changes, you'd still need a base damage nerf. Another 20% or 30% would be about right.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Here's what FB needs:
1. Base radius reduced to 5, +3 per stage. This is a much smaller initial AoE with a much higher AoE growth rate. For reference, 8 is the radius of a Fireball explosion (the smallest AoE in the game at present), and 30 is the base radius of Discharge. This would make stage 1 exclusively a single-target affair, rather than hitting a small group as it does now.
2. 80 or 90% more damage per stage, not 110%. Since Flameblast builds so often incorporate ignite proliferation, and change #1 makes stages more about AoE, it is silly to give stage such a damage emphasis. A sub-100 stat here encorages more skillful use of the skill.
3. Even with the above two changes, you'd still need a base damage nerf. Another 20% or 30% would be about right.

I would rather see that GGG changed the multiplier so you get much more bang the longer you load. According the example below, if you just dab with FB you get (60+70) instead of (110+110)...but if you do a full blast the damage is equal to current FB.

60
70
80
90
100
120
130
140
150
160

Note that if the multiplier is 100% per stage, then that's equivalent to a higher number of smaller channel duration casts. It would still gain AoE at an increasing rate relative to a higher number of smaller channel duration casts, though.

I'm pretty sure whatever problems (strong or weak) there are with Flameblast, it can be remedied just by numerically altering things. I don't see a problem by design, other than maybe incentivizing people to go for the big channel durations so that you're rewarded for being held in place by choice.

(And in that case, the multiplier per stage should be >100%, not equal to it and certainly not less than it.)

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@pneuma

By far the biggest problem with FB dabbing at this point is the AoE radius. With moderate passive commitment, an FB build can easily achieve Conc Effect dabs which hit multiple monsters even when not tightly grouped. Multiple hits in turn all but ensures a proliferated ignite will clear unhit monsters. Reducing dab AoE is absolutely fundamental to balancing FB.

Two casts (assuming Spell Echo, one use) should create an AoE roughly the size of a Firball explosion (8 units); 4 casts/2 uses should come closer to 14 units (AoE range of MeleeSplash and 0stackReave), or perhaps 12 units (AoE of Ball Lightning). Which gives us either 5+3x, or 6+2x (or maybe even 4+4x). I believe current values are roughly 10+2x. 5+3x gives a 10stack FB a radius closer to that it has now, but both are viable balance choices.

The damage part also needs nerfing. I would hope it would be done in a way which doesn't nerf dabbing to the ground, but perhaps I'm overthinking it. Given how ignite works, 100% on paper is always over 100% in practice (assuming any chance to crit or ignite) so 110% is overkill; I'd recommend at least that much reduction.

The rest is more nerf to base damage. It still needs some.

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pneuma wrote:

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DrOwnage wrote:

Was Atziris flameblast nerfed too ?

It was not (nor Magnus').

That is a fucking tragedy. Granted, there were a ton of damage mods, but this guy killed me four fucking times and I left him with like 2 hp. I don't like a mob where I literally can't stop to do any damage or the fucker one shots me. I don't mind playing mobile, but with 50 other mobs and his seemingly incredibly fast clear speed I could barely to stop to IC and when I do I have to mash my flasks and hope for the best. It didn't go very well, clearly. I'm barely even being challenged by the rest of the map.... *sigh*