Tell me the reason: Scold's Bridle and Stun

So I have been busing writing exams the last days and only overlooked the happening of the Scold's Bridle Sitautaion. Still it bothered me all the time even when I should have been learning...

Finally I am done and can talk my mind about this.
So here a kinda mixtape version of an open letter to GGG and an analysis of the situation for the community:

First: my personal opinion is, that the way GGG acted on removing this build was the worst move they ever did, at least in regard for my own playstyle(=success). Never has a decision influenced my gameplay more than this "bugfix". And I think its a terrible decision because of many different reasons.

I also invested all of my wealth into this build and now I am left with the feeling that everything I play after this fun build is just feeling boring and having no currency to invest anymore I dont see a reason to play on in this league anymore.

But I don't want to jump on the Cry-Train soly. In the past days I thought about the reason that lead GGG to this decision. So I tried to take a logical approach myself.

the Process of creating a Unique item:
Keeping it short: When GGG designs a Unique item they have Theme in Mind. Since the Selfstun was seemingly a "bugfix" they must have thought about something different.
Most likely the idea was to create a strong spellcaster item to support selfcasting that benefits every spell. A downside had to be added, so they then decided that trading a high damage increase for recieving more damage would be fair.
At this point the guys at GGG that have to evaluate dangerously OP build Ideas must have thought: " OH WAIT dmg could lead to CWDT builds". But in the end they decided the DMG-taken part that is needed for CWDT is so high that its not really abusable. And In the end its just fueling the Build diversity.

Build diversity
Yeah lets just talk about this shortly. Everybody should know this and if we have to tell this to GGG then I dont know how they ended up with the game becomeing as awesome as it is right now. One of the things that make this game so great is the many many ways you can create a "viable" (lets not strecth/discuss that word too much lets just say endgame playable) build. You can throw together some shit that is borderline useless if used on a regular/different build and in still in the right composition you create a powerful monster ravaging combination.
Why talk about this here ? In my opinion GGG should support build diversity by any means. It what keeps the game replayable, giving races, rerolls, and hardcore a reason. It makes the game enjoyable as whole and more interesting for "professional" gamers (this time I mean gamers that look for games with high depth. pitch me a better word if you know one :P ).

Nerfing
The other part that is so great about this game is the Challenge. This is where things become connected. The game needs to be hard. Hard enough for professional gamers so they face challenges to keep them playing, but also easy enough for new players to have fun and reach the endgame somehow.
Now the Pros surely want to differntiate from the newer players, want to be faster clearing/cooler clearing whatever. GGG is always fearing that some Combinations of Builds (= Build diversity connection here) becomes too strong so the game is no challenge anymore. The only way they can allow this is to gate this content so far away that its close to impossible to reach it in a temporal league.

Conclusion:
GGG did not plan for Scold's Bridle to stun. They saw the potential of CWS builds and, as always, feared the power.

The main question I have to GGG now is the following: Why the fast remove? In the middle of the league? Screwing payers like me who invest everything into those builds?

I know most of the players who played this build must think the same.

Lets try to think like GGG. If it was your game what could lead to this drastic decision ? I can only think of few rasons:

1. They did not know about this build.
With the connection to the community here and on reddit i find it highly unlikely but maybe the guy responsible for this rework did actually not know about the awesome shit that is CWS builds with Scolds.

No shame. I know you are all busy working on Act 4 and maybe it was just overlooked.
But if this is the case then well, just remove that change: to say it again : more builds = more fun = profit for everyone.

2. They knew about CWS builds but had a problem with them coming from Scold's
This has to imply that there is an absolute broken combo out there that facerolls every content singlehandly. I highly doubt this. The power of CWS builds with Scold's has been discussed on many occasions. To name just a few negativ aspects: you deal damage to yourself, you have to stand in the middle of mobs, Projectiles fire randomly, to maximize the Stunchance in order to maximize the Procchance you also have to max the DMG you deal yourself. On Top of That you still have to deal with the Stuns themself (think lightning warp).

So if Nr.2 is the case for the nerf/remove of this build I want to know exactly what combo could be so strong ? I mean its not like Aucity or LL spectral throw is NOT ridiculously strong. But they are hard to get, so wait a moment: That uber OP Scold's Bild cant be to easy either, else it would be all over the news. Also after this League Scold's will be Legacy (kinda because of Zana). So how strong could this secret build be ? I really want to know what the probelm could be there and then you can fix it instead of removing a build

3. They overlooked the Stun and its complementary for the initial design of the Unique.
As explained above: They have an idea what to do with Scold's but now they find out stun hindering that idea.
Well why remove another build for that ? There are TONS of ways to tackle this problem ingame: High Life pool, Eye of Chayula, Unwavering stance, and more.
Just leave it in => More Builds = More fun = Profit for everyone.

4. Unfair that the build is only available to Softcore players ?
Well this is more a reason that a salty hardcoreplayer could come of with but you still have Zana. Or just create a Reace reward. fixed right there.

5. Vaal Molten Shell to strong ?
What this has nothing to do with the Stun at all, just limit the Procs on VMS like you did on CoC.

6. Casting too many spells crashes the game with CWS and allows for crafting abuse.
Ok no im just grasping for straws to find another reason to remove the build but hey, it works for CoC so why not just look into it and fix it and dont remove a build.


So even when I try to think like GGG I cannot find a reason why they would remove a build. Cutting their diveristy.

I know it's just this one thing. This one single build, what could be so bad. But the trend is bad. Bad for us players, bad for GGG, and believe me: when your favourite build in your favourite game would just be cut out, youd be mad too...

I just hope somebody responsible for the change sees this and can tell me why it was made. I tried hard to find a valid reasoning but I cant. In the end removing great builds equals removing players.
Having more builds in your game is your own interest as well!
At least it should be!


PS: Not native english (obviously) so forgive me any mistakes. Also feel free to add your thoughts and views maybe I forgot something important ?

I agree, i was a bit scared for my CWDT Scold build at every patch note in this league.

Imo the main problem it's doing that mid league. GGG act like many state on business, you make a business plan, invest a lot, and 6 month later the governement make a law that screw you.

Instead of rewardind creativity and make CWS build of the weeks, they break dozens of people build. In the same time they promote the VMS build, wich is in my opinion way more powerfull.

GGG killed the whole BD wtf ...

I remember seeing something about the Portal gem interacting with Scold's Bridle in an abusable fashion.

As you may (or may not) be aware, if you take any damage while casting Portal with the gem, the cast is interrupted and doesnt resolve. This was all fine and dandy since it made the Portal gem inferior to Portal Scrolls in return for infinite use.

However, combining that with Scold's Bridle meant that you would cast Portal and then immediately take damage, preventing the Portal spell from resolving. However, that interruption meant that you could then attempt to re-cast Portal again straight away, meaning that you could basically trigger the Scold's damage as fast as you could click, there was no cooldown.

Now, the person who discovered this used it with Vaal Molten Shell, to trigger multiple detonations per second, causing rediculous amounts of damage. However, I can imagine that with certain setups and builds the self-damage could be scaled in such a way that this abuse of Portal gem could trigger a stun - then we have the Martyr type CWS builds that Scold's enabled suddenly not being limited in dps by the cast speed of curses as they were before. My suspicion is that the they removed the Scold's stun in order to shutdown this build before it could be abused this way.

"

Grimmhammer wrote:

I remember seeing something about the Portal gem interacting with Scold's Bridle in an abusable fashion.

As you may (or may not) be aware, if you take any damage while casting Portal with the gem, the cast is interrupted and doesnt resolve. This was all fine and dandy since it made the Portal gem inferior to Portal Scrolls in return for infinite use.

However, combining that with Scold's Bridle meant that you would cast Portal and then immediately take damage, preventing the Portal spell from resolving. However, that interruption meant that you could then attempt to re-cast Portal again straight away, meaning that you could basically trigger the Scold's damage as fast as you could click, there was no cooldown.

Now, the person who discovered this used it with Vaal Molten Shell, to trigger multiple detonations per second, causing rediculous amounts of damage. However, I can imagine that with certain setups and builds the self-damage could be scaled in such a way that this abuse of Portal gem could trigger a stun - then we have the Martyr type CWS builds that Scold's enabled suddenly not being limited in dps by the cast speed of curses as they were before. My suspicion is that the they removed the Scold's stun in order to shutdown this build before it could be abused this way.

this was fixed...not 1.3.1

"

immortalphoenix wrote:

GGG killed the whole BD wtf ...

I spent lots of time to get Scold's Bridle and other gears.
Now the only character of mine in Torment can't even do most maps after patched.
wtf...

"

Grimmhammer wrote:

I remember seeing something about the Portal gem interacting with Scold's Bridle in an abusable fashion.

As you may (or may not) be aware, if you take any damage while casting Portal with the gem, the cast is interrupted and doesnt resolve. This was all fine and dandy since it made the Portal gem inferior to Portal Scrolls in return for infinite use.

However, combining that with Scold's Bridle meant that you would cast Portal and then immediately take damage, preventing the Portal spell from resolving. However, that interruption meant that you could then attempt to re-cast Portal again straight away, meaning that you could basically trigger the Scold's damage as fast as you could click, there was no cooldown.

Now, the person who discovered this used it with Vaal Molten Shell, to trigger multiple detonations per second, causing rediculous amounts of damage. However, I can imagine that with certain setups and builds the self-damage could be scaled in such a way that this abuse of Portal gem could trigger a stun - then we have the Martyr type CWS builds that Scold's enabled suddenly not being limited in dps by the cast speed of curses as they were before. My suspicion is that the they removed the Scold's stun in order to shutdown this build before it could be abused this way.

But this could be tackled in a different way. My main point is:

Build diversity is one of the VERY CORE APPEALS of POE.

They could like make portal impossible to trigger a stun etc. Just fix the problem but in a different way. But instead they just remove a build. You could always remove the overpowered component of abuild instead of removing the built itself. (I think this is the exact way GGG should handle ANY balance becuase diversity, said once again, is THE THING they got going for their game)

I dont even know if its worth anymore to look for cool new innovative builds if they may get removed again because they were not itnended ? or whatevr reason.
Meanwhile someone got 1 million DPS and can actually onehit the complete screen but thats fine....

Someone on GGG deciding balance is making mistakes imho...

I see it another way: I think Scold's Bridle's main purpose was to introduce a way for players to benefit from harming themselves. That's the entire theme of the helmet, it's a torture device.

Trigger gems are probably the FIRST thing that the balance team worries about when they implement ANY sort of new feature or balance change in the game. Which is exactly why it's hard for me to believe that they'd let a 'bug' of that nature get through in the first place.

IMO they should just remove trigger gems and find some other mechanics that aren't sitting on the razor's edge of completely OP and utterly useless.

Trigger Gems were the reason for me to get back into this game after I quit somewhere in Beta. But I also think they only removed CWS because they feared it would be too strong. A wrong decision but it doesnt look like we will get an answer from the well communicating company GGG anyway.