New Keystones to buff True Melee Characters

It's common knowledge that anything a true melee character could do, a pseudo or true ranged character could do better. There is a reason why Spectral throw and ground-slam are so popular while skills like Sweep and Cleave are not: They have larger AoE and/or can hit at range and allow you to avoid the thick of combat, while your character remains just as tanky as a true melee character would be.

The problem with the current design is that all defensive options that could benefit true melee, ALSO benefit ranged characters just as much, and any nerfs to current defense options ALSO nerf Melee characters (Such as the recent Block nerf, necessary to reduce it's OP-ness on a ranged character, but painful for traditional true melee characters.)

Horizontal expansion of the current defense meta is required to give true melee characters their own niche defensive options that cannot benefit ranged or pseudo ranged characters, while also increasing the viability of the classic true melee AoE physical skills such as Cleave and Sweep

To achieve this I propose two new Keystones in a setup similar to Acrobatics (First keystone, 3 buff nodes, second keystone.)

Adrenaline
You gain 1 stack of Adrenaline for every Normal monster, 2 stacks for every Rare Monster, and 5 stacks for every Rare or Unique monster within your Melee Attack Range. Each stack of adrenaline reduces Physical Damage by 1%, every two stacks reduces Spell Damage by 1% and every 5 stacks grants you 1 additional base melee attack range. The Effects of Adrenaline are doubled when using a Two-Handed Melee Weapon. You may have up to 5 Stacks of Adrenaline. You may no longer Dodge Attacks and you lose the benefits of Adrenaline for 5 seconds each time you Hit an enemy with a Projectile or Spell attack

Improved Adrenaline
You may have (1 or 2 depending on the node, the total of three adding up to 5) additional total stacks of Adrenaline. Rare and Unique monsters grant (1 or 2, again depending on the node and adding up to 5) additional stacks of Adrenaline.

Combat Prowess:
You take 30% less damage from reflected Melee Attack Damage and Critical Hits
You can no longer Block Attacks


The aim here to provide a substantial defensive buff to True Melee characters, Especially 2 Handed ones, while promoting their intended play-style of wading into the center of the enemies and letting loose.

This also helps to solve one of the biggest problems for Two-Handed melee characters: How to deal with Physical Reflect without trading all damage for defense or investing in extremely expensive unique items or rolling a Sword'n'board character instead. It also helps to improve the AoE for non-elemental melee area attacks such as Sweep, Cleave, Leap Slam and Cyclone.

The numbers may need to adjusted to achieve that (The Two handed adrenaline buff may be way too strong, or the crit damage reduction is a bit too much for example) but I feel the concept is solid and promotes the correct play-style for these characters.

Hopefully you agree.
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Drazn wrote:
It's common knowledge that anything a true melee character could do, a pseudo or true ranged character could do better. There is a reason why Spectral throw and ground-slam are so popular while skills like Sweep and Cleave are not: They have larger AoE and/or can hit at range and allow you to avoid the thick of combat, while your character remains just as tanky as a true melee character would be.

The problem with the current design is that all defensive options that could benefit true melee, ALSO benefit ranged characters just as much, and any nerfs to current defense options ALSO nerf Melee characters (Such as the recent Block nerf, necessary to reduce it's OP-ness on a ranged character, but painful for traditional true melee characters.)

Horizontal expansion of the current defense meta is required to give true melee characters their own niche defensive options that cannot benefit ranged or pseudo ranged characters, while also increasing the viability of the classic true melee AoE physical skills such as Cleave and Sweep

To achieve this I propose two new Keystones in a setup similar to Acrobatics (First keystone, 3 buff nodes, second keystone.)

Adrenaline
You gain 1 stack of Adrenaline for every Normal monster, 2 stacks for every Rare Monster, and 5 stacks for every Rare or Unique monster within your Melee Attack Range. Each stack of adrenaline reduces Physical Damage by 1%, every two stacks reduces Spell Damage by 1% and every 5 stacks grants you 1 additional base melee attack range. The Effects of Adrenaline are doubled when using a Two-Handed Melee Weapon. You may have up to 5 Stacks of Adrenaline. You may no longer Dodge Attacks and you lose the benefits of Adrenaline for 5 seconds each time you Hit an enemy with a Projectile or Spell attack

Improved Adrenaline
You may have (1 or 2 depending on the node, the total of three adding up to 5) additional total stacks of Adrenaline. Rare and Unique monsters grant (1 or 2, again depending on the node and adding up to 5) additional stacks of Adrenaline.

Combat Prowess:
You take 30% less damage from reflected Melee Attack Damage and Critical Hits
You can no longer Block Attacks


The aim here to provide a substantial defensive buff to True Melee characters, Especially 2 Handed ones, while promoting their intended play-style of wading into the center of the enemies and letting loose.

This also helps to solve one of the biggest problems for Two-Handed melee characters: How to deal with Physical Reflect without trading all damage for defense or investing in extremely expensive unique items or rolling a Sword'n'board character instead. It also helps to improve the AoE for non-elemental melee area attacks such as Sweep, Cleave, Leap Slam and Cyclone.

The numbers may need to adjusted to achieve that (The Two handed adrenaline buff may be way too strong, or the crit damage reduction is a bit too much for example) but I feel the concept is solid and promotes the correct play-style for these characters.

Hopefully you agree.


Everything here is an absolutely terrible idea...EXCEPT

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Combat Prowess:
You take 30% less damage from Melee Attack Damage and Critical Hits
You can no longer Block Attacks


Stick this behind Unwavering stance, and it's a license to print money. Fucking skill tree gold right there.
(yes, I removed reflect. 2 Handed Melee doesn't die to reflect. 2 handers die to being A) Nukelocked by 17 charging blackguard elites or B) 5 quick croaking chimera in a +damage map.
"But we still had a lot of fun, please don't think this comes from hate.
We bitch because we like you and we want you to be great!" ~Miracle of Sound
Last edited by LostKavi on Jan 28, 2015, 12:08:42 PM
That combat prowess thing wouldnt be good. Cant block is a no brainer if you go 2h axe or mace as there is no block to begin with. So its mandatory. The drawback has to hit all 2h weapons equally if its supposed to be a drawback.
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That combat prowess thing wouldnt be good. Cant block is a no brainer if you go 2h axe or mace as there is no block to begin with. So its mandatory. The drawback has to hit all 2h weapons equally if its supposed to be a drawback.


To quote someone else...

[the point]












































[your head]
"But we still had a lot of fun, please don't think this comes from hate.
We bitch because we like you and we want you to be great!" ~Miracle of Sound
Last edited by LostKavi on Jan 28, 2015, 1:35:29 PM
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That combat prowess thing wouldnt be good. Cant block is a no brainer if you go 2h axe or mace as there is no block to begin with. So its mandatory. The drawback has to hit all 2h weapons equally if its supposed to be a drawback.
Just like pure evasion characters don't car about penalty on Acrobatics.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Also, if you're doing point blank with a projectile, I dont't think you should be penalized.

The idea that close ranged characters could get a defensive buff is probably a good one, but assuming that only melee attacks are point blank is a fail.


I think there is an idea here somewhere, but that it might not be fully baked yet.
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That combat prowess thing wouldnt be good. Cant block is a no brainer if you go 2h axe or mace as there is no block to begin with. So its mandatory. The drawback has to hit all 2h weapons equally if its supposed to be a drawback.
Just like pure evasion characters don't car about penalty on Acrobatics.


Well, thats an actual penalty, no block, no ES no armor is pretty harsh.
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Everything here is an absolutely terrible idea...

Thanks for the constructive criticism.

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2 Handed Melee doesn't die to reflect. 2 handers die to being A) Nukelocked by 17 charging blackguard elites or B) 5 quick croaking chimera in a +damage map.


Unwavering stance is the counter to stun-lock and I guess you missed the part where Adrenaline would give them 20% physical resist. That would be before Armour by the way, so the effect is even greater because of that. The only issue here would be coding the power in such a way that De-sync or lag wouldn't cause you to gain the bonus too slowly.

Also, im pretty sure Dual Wield Crit builds using daggers or rapiers would love a reliable way to mitigate reflect too, outside of block since that just got nerfed. Pretty sure the CWDT+EC+IC combo and Acrobatics are the only places they could turn to ouside of block for dealing with physical reflect. Adrenaline would just give them an excuse to try builds using skills other than CoC + Spectral Throw.

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That combat prowess thing wouldn't be good. Cant block is a no brainer if you go 2h axe or mace as there is no block to begin with. So its mandatory. The drawback has to hit all 2h weapons equally if its supposed to be a drawback.


Yeah you have a point here, but what would be a good drawback that doesn't just make 2Handing as risky as it already is? I think we are at the point where 2h could use some straight up buffs in specific areas that don't benefit everyone else and ensure that they remain better than them.

And yeah, until more stuff is done to make 2Hand builds more survivable without needing to break the bank or do very little damage, this keystone would be pretty much mandatory. But if you stick it near the dualist area (probably a bit closer to the Marauder,) you would still have a-lot of options open while using it.

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Also, if you're doing point blank with a projectile, I Don't think you should be penalized. The idea that close ranged characters could get a defensive buff is probably a good one, but assuming that only melee attacks are point blank is a fail.


I'm not sure I agree with this, since with how point-blank works and considering the skills that use it, you still have enough range to deal with mobs outside of melee range. I mean look what people can do with Groundslam and that skill doesn't exactly have the longest range in the game.

Skills like Cleave and Sweep however require you to get right in the mobs faces, and in sweep's case actually surround you, to be effective. So thus they never get used outside of leveling since there are less risky AND more effective options (Like Groundslam and Spectral Throw.)

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I think there is an idea here somewhere, but that it might not be fully baked yet.


I'm glad you think so, and the point of this thread was more of a proof of concept rather than a put-this-in-the-game-now-GGG-I-know-best type thread. I'm looking forward to hearing what other things you disagree with.

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Well, thats an actual penalty, no block, no ES no armor is pretty harsh.


Its 30% and 50% LESS btw, you do still get a considerable amount of block with only a 30% reduction considering the amount of mitigation Acrobatics gives you on top of that. Its still worth considering block, just not speccing 100% into it like you used to. Though I agree that 50% less armour is harsh considering how armour works so it obviously wouldn't work, and 50% less energy shield makes Life the no brainer for increasing your EHP since it has no penalties.







Last edited by Drazn on Jan 28, 2015, 6:07:27 PM
I'm saying that even as a caster, I often find myself in close proximity to mobs. Perhaps I should be using a skelly totem, but if you're in the face of something, then you're in the face of something. Regardless of skill. And rewarding such in the face-ness, is possibly a good thing. I'd like to see "melee casters" exist and be given such balance to support it.
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I'm saying that even as a caster, I often find myself in close proximity to mobs. Perhaps I should be using a skelly totem, but if you're in the face of something, then you're in the face of something. Regardless of skill. And rewarding such in the face-ness, is possibly a good thing. I'd like to see "melee casters" exist and be given such balance to support it.


This is an interesting point, but I'm not sure this particular set of keystones is the place to do it in, 'cause it would be on the other side of the tree near the Str and Dex areas...

That said, Arctic armour, Skelly totems, easily achievable ele resists with the Purity auras and skill tree bonuses and even Energy Shield itself are all very strong options to building very tanky spell casters.

I mean just look at RF Incinerate: Tons of damage, Tons of range and tons of survivability with just a little bit of ele leech and some resistance flasks. Sure not every caster build is a crazy as this one is, but they already have a lot of tools to work with, a lot more at at least than any true melee character that isn't going an elemental build.

Also, no spell apart from the two possibly least used spells in the game (Frost nova and Shock nova) require you to stand in the center of your enemies to be effective, while almost any build using any physical melee attack apart from Groundslam and Spectral throw does.

But perhaps something like a spell only point-blank could be interesting, though it would need to be less potent considering builds like shotgun Freezing pulse, Fireball, Spark and Incinerate. Maybe something that gives you more tank rather than increasing damage...

Like a reverse of Point Blank that makes you take less damage from closer enemies but more from distant ones... Could be cool.

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