An illness, the attainment of BiS gear.

"

BossOfThisGym wrote:

So you just want BiS gear to make terrible builds as good as the current meta builds like lameblast, incinabore, cucklone, and summon boring snoozies?

Yes, yes i do.



I sense a certain pride in you about missing the point of threads and just going "hardcore-ubber-alles" + submit.
Which is your right, but doesn't really add a lot to the table.

Peace,

-Boem-

I fear I'm to stupid to get the point? If you take out the hunt for bis items you take out the whole reason for grinding. Arpgs only work because ppl hunt the bis items or the currency to buy them.

Sorry to interrupt but cucklone, summon boring snoozies, and hard core uber alles (perfect description of those types) are all in the top ten funniest things I've read here. That is gold.

"

Boem wrote:

"

BossOfThisGym wrote:

So you just want BiS gear to make terrible builds as good as the current meta builds like lameblast, incinabore, cucklone, and summon boring snoozies?

Yes, yes i do.

Spoiler

in case it wasn't obvious to you, that was sarcasm. Do you even drift bro?

I sense a certain pride in you about missing the point of threads and just going "hardcore-ubber-alles" + submit.
Which is your right, but doesn't really add a lot to the table.

Peace,

-Boem-

You don't like the fact that in a game with unfathomable amounts of different options for building your character, that some builds perform much better than others? And you place the blame on gear and not the game design/balance itself?

When you homogenize to bring all or most builds in line with each other you get a giant pile of crap like post TBC WoW or D3, instead of a great game like DAoC, which had many options, but also suffered from balance problems because of that. But it's one of the reason it was such a great game.

And yes, the forums are turning into a place were banter between leagues isn't allowed, like a sort of softcore tyranny. The banter were people call standard/HC "dumpster" or ppl who only play SC "scrubcores" is endearing, we don't really hate you guys, just like to bust your balls and hopefully get you to play HC one day because we believe its the best league.

"

Moonyu wrote:

But Boem has a point about the tree having a limit when it comes to end game where gear checks dominate.

End game should be hard. If a game is too easy, you play it and move on quickly. No reply value.

Too hard and you gate a large part of your audience from enjoying the game fully and they move on.

How to balance it properly? If I knew, I would design games for a living.

I think this kind of sums up the issue

I left D3 and came here because it was too easy...

At the same time if you make the game too hard some folks wont want to play, its kind of a delicate balance

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BossOfThisGym wrote:

You don't like the fact that in a game with unfathomable amounts of different options for building your character, that some builds perform much better than others? And you place the blame on gear and not the game design/balance itself?

You make a distinction between game design/balance and gear?

I am simply stating that gear holds to much power to a build in the end-game. Strip it of its items and what is left?

Gear it with t1 items then with t2 items and then with t3 and look at the power-curve involved and freedom in choice presented at the t1 state.

for example i would simply reduce the value's on all gear and then introduce those value's back in the passive tree. then you have a situation where gear does indeed have a factor in a build in end-game, but it is not it's main driving force or reason for being.

That's just an example from the top of my head. This would close the gap between characters since the items would only provide half of the increase in power. Then you have a situation where an under-geared quirky build is at 75% power relative to his old 50% (assuming passive tree 50% / gear 50%) and might be able to tackle a considerable amount of content even while quirky.

@k1rage, indeed, MoonYu has a keen sense of perception.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

yungwhiz wrote:

Sorry to interrupt but cucklone, summon boring snoozies, and hard core uber alles (perfect description of those types) are all in the top ten funniest things I've read here. That is gold.

I've seen a summon boring snoozies die to shrine piety because he didn't run a wake up when damage taken setup. Poor bastard fell asleep in her herald and died.

http://www.twitch.tv/gdaemontv/c/5968924

"

BossOfThisGym wrote:

like lameblast, incinabore, cucklone, and summon boring snoozies?

BiS gear I'm talking about legit best in slot no possible better upgrade right?

Making everyone have BiS gear has some merit because then the devs would have to focus on finding ways to challenge players with game mechanics.

But for people that enjoy the long road to finding BiS gear it's kinda a downer.
Part of the reason I play temp leagues is so I can have a journey with gearing.
Give me BiS gear on day one and you take away that journey.

What I would suggest is if some type of change like this came to the game it should only effect the perm leagues.

In those places non BiS gear is considered trash so elimination of that type of gear in that league wouldn't be as big of an effect as say in a temp league.

TLDR: A change to the drop rate of BiS Gear should only really apply to the perm leagues.

"

CalamityAOE wrote:

BiS gear I'm talking about legit best in slot no possible better upgrade right?

Making everyone have BiS gear has some merit because then the devs would have to focus on finding ways to challenge players with game mechanics.

But for people that enjoy the long road to finding BiS gear it's kinda a downer.
Part of the reason I play temp leagues is so I can have a journey with gearing.
Give me BiS gear on day one and you take away that journey.

What I would suggest is if some type of change like this came to the game it should only effect the perm leagues.

In those places non BiS gear is considered trash so elimination of that type of gear in that league wouldn't be as big of an effect as say in a temp league.

TLDR: A change to the drop rate of BiS Gear should only really apply to the perm leagues.

what i actually mean with the thread tittle is that BiS gear facilitates quirky builds to perform at a "reasonable" level, while it pushes min-maxed builds to OP-dom. As such i think the balance on this front is off and really detrimental to build diversity.

That's why i call the "attainment of bis gear" an illness, since it cures build diversity at the high end content experience. To much power of a character lies in his gear imo and as such you need an extreme amount of excessive BiS gear (or more accurate higher combined number rolls) for a quirky build to perform at a reasonable level. (when considering 77/78 maps with 100% modifiers that is)

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : to clarify this is a broad observation and not a cry for the introduction of easier attainable BiS gear, rather a question to replace this power-curve at something more appropriate of a RPG that specifies build diversity as one of it sales-points.