What Stalin tried and failed to do for 40 years, Angela Merkel achieved it in 5

The EU hasn't done anyone any good except place a bunch of people power who have zero accountability. The EU represents globalism, and that does no good for individuals in certain countries. A country like Germany for example, they don't need the EU. They got a strong enough economy to carry their own weight. Even for supporters of the EU, I don't see how Greece leaving is that big of a deal? They're dead weight that provides nothing to the union.
Last edited by MrSmiley21 on Jan 28, 2015, 7:58:20 AM
You are both dead wrong. For starters saying Greece should pay 100% of it's debt, fair enough, but remember that over half of Germany's post war debts(and the debt was humongous, nothing like Greece's) were written off, inculding over 600 BILLION war crime debt to Greece. This happened through a backyard agreement with Greek POliticians being bribed and payed on.

Greece have played a very big part in Germany's economy. I will repeat that since the late 80's, Greece has been the biggest importer of German products, out of total German military equipment exports, 14% have been going to Greece. Everything concerning electronic devices and constructions have been handled by german companies, particularly Siemens was involved in a well publicised scandal where it was paying the greek goverment for years. Even after the trial, where court decided on billions payment, from siemens to greece, was written off. Germany has been manipulating greek politics and economy for over 30 years.

ANd yeah, maybe Greece would self destruct without German help. What about Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc. It's easy to beleive and repeat the media propaganda of greeks being lazy etc. but in the end the statistics say otherwise. Here is the BBC survey which puts Greeks as working the longest hours in europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304

Europe's top 10 and bottom 10
Most hours worked Most productive Fewest hours worked Least productive
1
Greece
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Poland
2
Hungary
Norway
Germany
Hungary
3
Poland
Ireland
Norway
Turkey
4
Estonia
Belgium
France
Estonia
5
Turkey
Netherlands
Denmark
Czech Rep
6
Czech Rep
France
Ireland
Portugal
7
Italy
Germany
Belgium
Slovakia
8
Slovakia
Denmark
Austria
Greece
9
Portugal
Sweden
Luxembourg
Slovenia
10
Iceland
Austria
Sweden
Iceland

The graphed is messed up after the copy paste. The four countries go in horizontaly to each category. Note also ranks second in "fewest hours worked".
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
Last edited by Poutsos on Jan 28, 2015, 8:32:39 AM
I am not saying that Greeks are lazy, neither am I saying that german economy would not be hurt by greece leaving the eurozone, quite the opposite actually.

Of course Germany has benefited from deals with Greece in the past and of course it would be a blow to the entire euro zone if Greece left, that's not up to debate.

I am saying that giving the euro zone the finger just to settle a score is the utmost wrong thing that can be done given the current situation and will weaken both the euro zone and the greek economy.

And that is not even taking the political consequences into consideration. The euro is not just a currency, it is supplement to the idea of a unified european continent and if the monetary union were to break apart it would be just a matter of time for the EU to do so as well and I would rather not go back to detached european countries. That didn't go well for the last thousands of years and will not go well in a world where every other power axis is expanding their influence.
Nobody wants to settle a score. What Syriza wants is to negotiate better terms and writte off a percentage of the debt. Pretty much what happened to Germany post war. The reality now is that Greece CANNOT pay it's debt. The situation can hadly get worse. The Greek economy has shrunk by over 25% since 2010, unemployment is over 50%(real number, oficial numbers do not take in acount ages up to 25, married women and men who are doing their military service). The averange wage has been lowered to around 500 euros per month(it used to be around 800). So if Europe does not negotiate terms, then the only viable option for Greece is indeed to leave the Eurozone.

I do not know what you see as Axis now, but if it's a reference to Russia or China then i do not agree. US is just as bad if not worse. The most profitable thing for Greece now would indeed be an exit of the Eurozone, and an open economic partnership with Russia. I know from inside, since Russia was the only market that bought for example high quality Greek fruit, instead of prefering cheaper mostly latin american fruit like the rest of western Europe. But Russia now has put on an embargo upon all europe.

This is of course next to impossible. Greece is a member of Nato and the US won't allow it. I mentioned earlier that a former prime minister tried to import Russian Gus(by Gasprom), and CIA made him dissapear from the political scene. If Tsipras tries an open partnership, he will most likely be assasinated.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
Last edited by Poutsos on Jan 28, 2015, 10:18:45 AM

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