10 unqiues that are in need of renewal, badly

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Grughal wrote:

Also I could mention Veil of the Night doesn't belong on the list since it does exactly what it was designed for.

the list also contains items which are unusable, like marylenes,veil,hirrys they might reach their deisgn goal, but their design is horrible.

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Grughal wrote:

Do you really think all these uniques we discussed here are fine as they are and well balanced, thus buffing them could potentially lead into OP broken items? I can see the points you make but I can't see why you would defy changing these items or buffing them to match the recent uniques. Powercreep has really made a lot of items look bad when they were really good some year(s) ago (Magnate, Hrimnors for example).

yes. they might not be as good as they were, but they are still usable and they still do what they were made to do. they might no be amazing at it anymore, but they can do it, i made the list small, with the uniques that REALLY, desperately, need to get reworked.

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VictorDoom wrote:

"

Grughal wrote:

Also I could mention Veil of the Night doesn't belong on the list since it does exactly what it was designed for.

the list also contains items which are unusable, like marylenes,veil,hirrys they might reach their deisgn goal, but their design is horrible.

"

Grughal wrote:

Do you really think all these uniques we discussed here are fine as they are and well balanced, thus buffing them could potentially lead into OP broken items? I can see the points you make but I can't see why you would defy changing these items or buffing them to match the recent uniques. Powercreep has really made a lot of items look bad when they were really good some year(s) ago (Magnate, Hrimnors for example).

yes. they might not be as good as they were, but they are still usable and they still do what they were made to do. they might no be amazing at it anymore, but they can do it, i made the list small, with the uniques that REALLY, desperately, need to get reworked.

K, fair enough. Small is pretty (I hope). The ones in the OP (especially Hyrri, Oro, Rebuke and it's a dam shame, cool items) are terrible and not renewed by buffing tweaking their stats a little.

About Veil of the Night, Great Helmet, I'm 99% sure it is just an eastern egg for Gotterdamerung so it was never even meant to be used for anything in this game, other than make GGG chuckle when players are desperately trying to figure a build or some hidden recipe for it.

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Grughal wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

"

Grughal wrote:

Also I could mention Veil of the Night doesn't belong on the list since it does exactly what it was designed for.

the list also contains items which are unusable, like marylenes,veil,hirrys they might reach their deisgn goal, but their design is horrible.

"

Grughal wrote:

Do you really think all these uniques we discussed here are fine as they are and well balanced, thus buffing them could potentially lead into OP broken items? I can see the points you make but I can't see why you would defy changing these items or buffing them to match the recent uniques. Powercreep has really made a lot of items look bad when they were really good some year(s) ago (Magnate, Hrimnors for example).

yes. they might not be as good as they were, but they are still usable and they still do what they were made to do. they might no be amazing at it anymore, but they can do it, i made the list small, with the uniques that REALLY, desperately, need to get reworked.

K, fair enough. Small is pretty (I hope). The ones in the OP (especially Hyrri, Oro, Rebuke and it's a dam shame, cool items) are terrible and not renewed by buffing tweaking their stats a little.

About Veil of the Night, Great Helmet, I'm 99% sure it is just an eastern egg for Gotterdamerung so it was never even meant to be used for anything in this game, other than make GGG chuckle when players are desperately trying to figure a build or some hidden recipe for it.

Thats what im hoping too, a small list with the items that suffer the most, maybe ggg will look at them and possibly fix them, since there arent many that are this horribly bad.

Yeah i know veil is a reference to d1, its even made by the user lachdanan, his account name is a reference to d1 haha, but still, adding a unique as a homage to d1 without making it useful at all is kind of a waste, the d1 stats of 0 resists werent that bad cause you had levels without elemental mobs, in poe you have elemental damage everywhere, so you just cant use it, even as a swap.

edit: to be fair the same can be said about song of the sirens, but thats a fishing rod you dont really expect to use it on anything, apart from fishing.. ;)

I love these threads. Equal parts unique design (which is always fun) and fixing old content (which needs to be done more often by GGG).

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Just commenting on the OP for now:

Terminus: Agree on the suggested fix. Give it base crit and focus on frenzy-charge generation. A risky move might be to leave the crit low but give it the Voll's treatment by changing its frenzy-charge generation from per-cast to per-hit. I'm really not sure what would happen then, but I think it would be fun to find out.

Hrimnor's: The best/unique part of the helm is not the fire damage but the elemental status avoidance. When there was 50% chill/freeze avoidance on the tree, this helm turned into chill/freeze immunity. Now granted, there are lots of sources of freeze immunity now, most notably Alpha's which takes the same slot and is a powerhouse item.

It definitely got power-creeped to death. Getting some +life on it would be a start.

The theme is a burning heart (hotblooded, etc). It increases your fire damage and also makes you resistant to cold effects. Perhaps it could incorporate cold-hate additionally? Something like: "Gains onslaught for 2s when hit by cold damage", or some other strong positive buff?

Oro's: I would really hate to see this thing just get an aspd boost. Fast ele-attacking is done to death and a too-obvious synergy. Instead, it would be nice to just keep up the big fire hits (since they're nice for prolif anyway) and eschew aspd entirely. Instead of "Frenzy charge generation on ignite", go for something crazy like "30%+ fire pen on burning enemies".

Now the sword still hits like a truck, and against burning enemies, it hits like an even bigger truck and culls them. The sword also becomes a possible fire caster weapon with such a mod.

Hyrri's Ire: This armor is the most annoying "bad unique" in the game, for me. It's absolutely ancient and it's steeped in lore, and yet unlike other "big lore" chest uniques (Kaom's, Shav's anyone?) it hasn't gotten any love at all.

They just need to take the theme (classical dex,archery,evasion,cold) and turn it up to fucking 11. A lot more flat cold damage, a more interesting chill effect, and flat dodge% instead of Acrobatics.

Rebuke: This one was definitely phoned in. It doesn't have an interesting theme, and it has a much higher required level than the damage it does. I don't know, multiply the added damage by some amount? Make it faster? Short of inventing a theme for it, it's kind of a dead end.

Veil: Working as intended I guess. It's an homage unique. The least they could do is give it a sweet fucking 3d art and/or effect so that people would use it as a skin transfer.

(Coral Amulet): Life regen% for sure. Or just remove it.

Maligaro's Lens: I disagree entirely that the item is bad. I've seen one "cleric" build that uses it with NA, reduced duration/fast cast SRS, and Minion Life. Summons a bunch of heads that run forward and expire, healing allies in parties. I mean, it's a weird item, but I'm not sure what I'd change about it.

Marylene's: I completely disagree with a "total rework" of this amulet. I absolutely love the theme, which is focusing on the spikiest possible damage. I would go completely nuts on it and leave or reduce the crit chance even farther and ramp the offense up substantially. "Your hits overkill for twice as much", a crit multi multi, totally ludicrous stuff like that.

The amulet should be amazing for dot builds that scale off the initial hit and thus want the ultimate spiky damage. Eleprolif ignite most obviously, poison and bleeding secondarily. It should be okay to whiff 3 times in a row to brutalize the enemies. The game doesn't need more "generic good dps" things that even your damage out.

Darkscorn: "way too defensive" -- the bow isn't defensive enough imo. It's long been used as a 25% damage reduction bow with CI; it should continue to focus on that. Give it +/%eshield, give it an eshield effect ("eshield regens x% on enemy kill") and maybe, if needed, give it some "side" damage like increased damage over time and/or +gem levels (so that it can still be used with EA/PA and casting) instead of the useless ipd% it currently has.

Essentia: Like Hrimnor's, power-creeped to death. Giving it the Cloak of Defiance treatment would be great. Give it "better Ghost Reaver" or "true Ghost Reaver", however you want to define it. I would opt for something crazy like "converts life gain on hit to eshield gain on hit" alongside Ghost Reaver, though x% increased faster leech rate would also work.

Oro's should just have its downsides removed and it would be a workable unique imo.

Anything that lowers EHP value's is pretty much screwed in this game from the get-go.

The immediate reaction to this item is "let's use AA to counter the downsides" only to later realize your holding a 2-hander in your hand and are not really near any mana/regen clusters without causing more EHP loss overall.

I would happily build around this item if it did not have that +10% phys/fire attribute on it and i don't think it would be broken beyond repair by removing that.

Peace,

-Boem-

Hi

Terminus: Never used it, 2h swords as a whole need a make over.

Oros sword: Niche build.

Hyrris Ire: Screams fix me.

Rebuke of vaal: Fail

Veil of the night: Poor mans gotterdamerung failure.

Coral amulet: -needs a higher lvl counterpart-, the flat regen stat is fine since it gets multiplied via % regen passives.
-Maybe even a recipe could be made to double all the amulets base's in the future, ex: use recipe on coral amulet, coral amulets regenerative base is now double.

Maligaros lens: could use either less resists on item or more resist node passives for minions, BUT the real issue with this item is it encourages MI and MI is a very sad keystone that needs some severe reconsideration.

ONE UNIQUE STANDS ABOVE THE REST FOR SOME FIXING:

FACEBREAKERS: Can't critical unarmed? and constantly getting nerfed from gem usage, passive nodes, gear choices, etc...

cheers

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Boem wrote:

Oro's should just have its downsides removed and it would be a workable unique imo.

Anything that lowers EHP value's is pretty much screwed in this game from the get-go.

The immediate reaction to this item is "let's use AA to counter the downsides" only to later realize your holding a 2-hander in your hand and are not really near any mana/regen clusters without causing more EHP loss overall.

I would happily build around this item if it did not have that +10% phys/fire attribute on it and i don't think it would be broken beyond repair by removing that.

**

Oro's drawback is just a sad joke. it is GGG's way of saying 'get lost'. even without drawback it cannot be made into something remotely viable. templar tree (pretty much the only one possible), full glass cannon and it is still garbage dps (and the survivability is a sad joke - one has to rely on Warlords Mark for leech/Atziri' belt - because having peashooter AND life leech gem is unimaginable)

no leech, mana issues, horrid crit, horrid aspd.. noob trap galore. but it is xxx fire dps! really?


all other items from the previous post (this one is waaaaay to defensive) are garbage

stuff like Ambu's or both Raiments are insta-vendor. noone cares about their 'superb perks' at their level (lvl 40) - you rush trough these levels even with first self found char. noone gives a hoot about 2% life regen on low life. sorry. saying otherwise is a sweet-talk. nothing else. at any remotely end-game level (60+) these items are crap people seldom even pick up

Darkscorn is an utter garbage. again - anyone theorycrafting CI PA build - just try that before opening your mouth

same goes for Rebuke and for that steaming pile of.. called Hyrri's

Hrimnors? ggg just removed the only reason to use it - flasks now grant status aliment immunity. so why bother? all other stats are garbage and the entire concept is like 5years too old

what about these two then:


btw - anyone defeding Chalice of Horrors.. please, stop

btw2 - anyone defending Cherrubins armor - if it is so good, please link your 5+ linked one. because in practice this armor HAS NOTHING INTERESTING and as an practical item makes little to no sense. it has some VERY niche applications but we are talking about a literally one-two build/s and even then it is not BiS for that build/s

someone tried too hard to be a special snowflake and in this case - failed. ggg had a bad day and acted defensively ruining the initial concept and turning it into something 'politically correct' (in the worst possible meaning of this phrase). people criticizing this item are being called 'rude to the supporter' by the same people that never ever considered using this item.

@pneuma

i feel like hymnors flavour suggest that its defensive towards cold but offensive with fire, i was thinking a "more fire damage" mod on it would be pretty great

That fire pen idea for Oro's is GREAT, it would actually make it a really nice unqiue to build around, and it would be worthwhile doing that, especially with a prolif high on hit damage char

Again, great idea to add dodge chance to hyrris ire, that would make it a very very nice unique for acro builds

As darkscorn goes, i think you might be on a good idea there, to benefit PA it owuld be nice if it had +2 level of gems and a boost in damage over time, (+3 gem bows would still be slightly better, but they wouldnt give the 25% phys reduction with CI). i acutally tried darkscorn CI PA back in CB and it was horrifyingly bad

i still firmly believe that the two downsides of marylenes are just too much, its 1 big hit in 20, the good damage is just way too rare for it even for prolif builds.

and as maligaros lense goes, from other people whove used it they all say that the minions die so fast its only really good in conjuction with MI, the 2% life on death is good, but i feel like it shouldnt be the main build point of a character, just a upside to necromancers when they lose a minion

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Boem wrote:

Oro's should just have its downsides removed and it would be a workable unique imo.

The downside of oros is not the problem, the problem is that you can not get good dps from it, thats what i mean when i said you have to sacrifice survivability, you literally have to spec into way too much damage on tree to get decent dps from it, not even good dps, just dps that works.

Hmm i was clearing maps with a 2-hander mace user with AoF + molten strike. And he had lower "one hit damage" then oro's. And i could not use EE since i was an AoF user.

so i think if the EHP factor was removed you could make some interesting builds with this sword. specing of a single hit and prolif and using ice nova + CoH to eliminate resistances for the prolif.

Not saying this would be insane, but maybe workable.

Peace,

-Boem-

@sidtherat malachais is a sick unique that gives a free 5/6-link early on, it can be rather powerful in the right lightning set-ups and its light% is nothing to snooze at imo for its lvl requirement.

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Grughal wrote:

Magnate is shit compared to any rustic with a life or resistance on it. Yeah, it's low level but so is Meginord and it blows the shit out of Magnate. What I meant with "outdated with Atziri belts and Rustic -buff" wasn't that they're comparable (not even close), I meant that at least previously Magnate had something (being the ultimate no.1 phys damage belt) for niche CI flickers or something but now it really has no reason to exist as it is.

Yet, it's an essential component of Havoc's Bloodlines Atziri, and soon Uber Atziri Killer. The one that recently facetanked Abaxoth in a Shrine.

It has a unique 'value' of a mod which can be useful at the highest of content.
That pretty much defines its place as a unique which is not useless and has reason to exist. Hell, it's probably the epitome of a perfect unique.