Curse Immunity.

I think the curse immunity affix mod on monsters should be reworked.

It's not a too big of a deal in most cases, but when you have invested skill points to boost curses, corrupted items to give +1 curses or using unique items to boost curses, it is a bit annoying when you get a rare mob with complete immunity to them.

I think the mod should reduce the effect of curses instead. 60% reduced effect sounds fine, like map bosses have (according to wiki).

It's fine in some cases where you know you can't use curses before you do the content, such as Maelström of Chaos unique map.

I completely agree and I've suggested reworking Curse immunity mods and breaking them down into 2 different mods.

One that reduces number of curses the monster can have by 1 (so if you have items/passives granting you +1 you can still apply curses.

The other reducing effectiveness of them.

Here is the thread:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/585002/page/1

This thread has come up numerous times before and we've explained each time why it shouldn't be removed. So don't feel disrespected if I don't reply to anyone quoting me.

The reason we have "counters" is to force us out of the "A-move" (attack move command from strategy games, also referring to one move or skill things) tunnel play.

But we do have counters for counters, like shav's countering chaos damage bypassing ES so that low-life can still be abused. But it requires a specific build that relies on that item, and that means no other item in that slot can be used with it.

Another good example is Cybil's Paw, capable of rendering you immune to Corrupt Blood so long as you are hitting the rare that gives the CB charges. And once it's dead, you pop your flask.

But all of these are specific and only work with some builds. The Cybil's example won't work for ES builds, but does for life builds.

The only thing that stops a curse build from spamming curses is curse immunity. It's the only thing that forces it to do something else, and to adapt to the situation. If curse immunity is only a reduction, the curse build will still spam all of their curses (applying the best if only some can be used), with no difference in play other than the curses are slightly less effective. The curse build will still spam their curses.

No.

I get that there are counters to builds, and there are many ways to counter them back.

Currently there is no way to counter curse immunity.

I really think there should be a master mod, gem, passive or item with some sort of curse penetration.

Curse immunity comes very often on rares, and that is the only reason I have never tried to make a curse heavy build.

"

I get that there are counters to builds, and there are many ways to counter them back.

Currently there is no way to counter curse immunity.

I really think there should be a master mod, gem, passive or item with some sort of curse penetration.

Curse immunity comes very often on rares, and that is the only reason I have never tried to make a curse heavy build.

Orly?

1. Conversion Trap, and let enemies kill them.

2. Use your skill, which should be doing considerable damage already.

3. Minions effectively kill them, unless it's a high level boss or equivalent.

4. Searing Bond, which will deal "ok" damage and will kill them eventually.

But beyond that, they're not really trouble.

I am all for counters and encouragement to using variety of skills.

But we need to get a few things straight:
1 - Immunity is not Countering - it's shutting down.
One thing is is taking Curses away from a build that uses 1 or 2 as a bonus.
Another thing entire is telling someone they cannot play their build at all - by shutting down Curses from a build that focuses on them, completely negating the gameplay behind the build.
That's not countering - it's just idiotic design.

Perfectly acceptable counters include:
A - Mobs that become stronger while Cursed (regenerating, faster, hit harder, gain aditional abilities, etc)
B - Mobs that can have X LESS Curses on them (meaning you must counter that with passives/items that grant enemies can have X more curses on them)
C - Mobs that reduce the effectiveness of Curses on them by X%.
D - Mobs that reduce the duration of Curses on them by X%.

2 - Healthy variety doesn't include throwing away build identity.
Countering the counter by simply not playing your build is stupid.

Asking a Melee build that focuses on Inferno Blow to swap to Glacial Hammer or Lightning Strike to deal with certain enemies is perfectly okay.

Asking any build to use Smoke Mine or Decoy Totem occasionally to deal with some enemies is perfectly okay.

But suggesting that an "ideal" build should have no identity just to deal with everything is not okay - it's stupid design.

That's like saying:
"Oh so you made a cool flavorful character that focuses on all sorts of ice magic and uses the spells in a creative way?
Well %"$"% you - you have to use fire spells to beat me .|..o_O..|."

GGG can force players to be creative and think before spamming skills without PREVENTING them from playing their build.

"

Nurvus wrote:

1 - Immunity is not Countering - it's shutting down.

Hence why it is called "immunity". It's meant to shut down one thing. If you built a cold sorc in Diablo II, you either skipped most content, remade her, made a brand new character, or quit the game. It forced players to either group up to counter immunities or to split their focuses to prevent them from A-moving the entire game.

All we do in PoE is a-move.

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Nurvus wrote:

Another thing entire is telling someone they cannot play their build at all - by shutting down Curses from a build that focuses on them, completely negating the gameplay behind the build.

There's nothing stopping you from playing your curse build just because one monster has curse immunity. You still have an attack, yes? Use it.

Curses don't make or break builds. They sure help a lot, but they aren't makers or breakers.

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Nurvus wrote:

2 - Healthy variety doesn't include throwing away build identity.
Countering the counter by simply not playing your build is stupid.

No, it is smart. Read above.

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Nurvus wrote:

But suggesting that an "ideal" build should have no identity just to deal with everything is not okay - it's stupid design.

And what builds lose identity? They don't. By your logic armor builds suddenly become non-armor builds just because they can't fight a high physical hitting boss. That's not the case.

"

Nurvus wrote:

That's like saying:
"Oh so you made a cool flavorful character that focuses on all sorts of ice magic and uses the spells in a creative way?
Well %"$"% you - you have to use fire spells to beat me .|..o_O..|."

No, in the case of D2 it said one of two things:

1. Get a group that can deal with immunities that you can't deal with.

or

2. Find another method to kill or circumvent the immunity that counters your build. We don't care how you do this.

But it always says the same thing: We don't want you a-moving the entire, fucking, game. It gets boring.

PoE only has one immunity and it's against things that don't make or break anything. There are also plenty of ways around it, much more than in D2.

"

Nurvus wrote:

GGG can force players to be creative and think before spamming skills without PREVENTING them from playing their build.

And there's nothing stopping someone from making a curse build. You simply need to be prepared for curse immunity just like CoC needs to be ready for reflect and CB, and armor builds need to be ready for physical bosses, and ranged needs to be ready for melee, and so on.

Nothing new here Nurvus.

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Natharias wrote:

"

Nurvus wrote:

1 - Immunity is not Countering - it's shutting down.

Hence why it is called "immunity". It's meant to shut down one thing. If you built a cold sorc in Diablo II, you either skipped most content, remade her, made a brand new character, or quit the game. It forced players to either group up to counter immunities or to split their focuses to prevent them from A-moving the entire game.

All we do in PoE is a-move.

You keep talking in hyperbole.
1 - This isn't Diablo.
2 - You don't need immunities to force players to NOT spam A-move.

I gave examples of what can be done to help players THINK before they spam <insert move type> on enemies, and perhaps use alternatives.

However, your solution to immunities is diluting gameplay way beyond "not spamming A-move". It's simply throwing away any semblance of build identity.

Might as well just be an "all build".

"

Nurvus wrote:

And there's nothing stopping someone from making a curse build. You simply need to be prepared for curse immunity just like CoC needs to be ready for reflect and CB, and armor builds need to be ready for physical bosses, and ranged needs to be ready for melee, and so on.

Nothing new here Nurvus.

And if Curse Immunity is replaced with any of the alternatives I provided, the player must still be prepared, will still have a tougher challenge, will still have to adapt, but at the core can still play his build.

Nothing new here Natharias.

There is no gameplay value that Immunities provide that isn't better provided by other mechanics such as the ones I indicated - and without ruining gameplay!

The problem is NOT countering Curses. That is fine.
The problem is specifically the concept of Immunity.

If I invest into Curse gear/passives, only to have all of it worth 0 against some mobs, it adds nothing to gameplay. No depth. No clever workaround.
Just me not playing my build.
Just like a Summoner unable to use minions or a Caster forced to attack with melee/bows.

I've proven through straight-forward logic - without bias - that Immunity itself is absolutely worthless and does nothing but stop you from playing your build.

Anything other than immunity can be tuned to make the game challenge Curse users as much as other mechanics challenge other build types.

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Nurvus wrote:

And if Curse Immunity is replaced with any of the alternatives I provided, the player must still be prepared, will still have a tougher challenge, will still have to adapt, but at the core can still play his build.

...and will still spam the same things over, and over, and over. He won't change his procedure.

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Nurvus wrote:

Nothing new here Natharias.

I'm not the one trying to conjure up bullshit or change things. So when you come up with something new, I'll come up with something new. If you can give one good reason that I can't refute, I'll submit. But you have yet to do so.

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Nurvus wrote:

There is no gameplay value that Immunities provide that isn't better provided by other mechanics such as the ones I indicated - and without ruining gameplay!

Like what? None. Immunities provide a very good method of forcing players out of a-moving, which I've explained time, after time, after time. I'm not repeating myself and it'd be nice if you didn't repeat the same things that force me to repeat myself.

Immunities do not ruin anything, except that which it is meant to counter.

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Nurvus wrote:

The problem is NOT countering Curses. That is fine.
The problem is specifically the concept of Immunity.

Ok. This quote and the fact that you quoted what I said but put your name is making me think you're trolling.

If so, you're doing a bad job at it.

If not, you need to think before posting.

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Nurvus wrote:

If I invest into Curse gear/passives, only to have all of it worth 0 against some mobs, it adds nothing to gameplay. No depth. No clever workaround.
Just me not playing my build.

No, that's you not trying to work around the counter to your build. It's kinda funny how you won't use one socket to easily overcome the counter to your build, which you're so ready to dump just because you don't want to use one socket. Is it to easy for you? Do you want a harder method to counter the counter to your build?

You not playing your build is you not playing the game. Not working around counters is not playing the game.

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Nurvus wrote:

Just like a Summoner unable to use minions or a Caster forced to attack with melee/bows.

Except the latter is never the case, and never will be. Yet summoners can't do some content because some bosses will shred their minions. Because if we follow your logic, anything that can wreck a summoner's minions-and thereby prevent them from playing that map or area-should be nerfed.

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Nurvus wrote:

I've proven through straight-forward logic - without bias...

LOL!

Bullshit, and now I do know you're trolling. Very bad job, too.

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Nurvus wrote:

that Immunity itself is absolutely worthless and does nothing but stop you from playing your build.

Conversion Trap says hi. For what, the 999th time?

Edit: When and if you post something new I'll respond to you.