Ranged Vs. Melee Disparity.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

It already is path of life nodes.

It's more than that in fact. You can't even play hc by just getting lots of life, big life values don't even cut it. You need insane life PLUS big resist overcapped PLUS lots of armor/ev PLUS something else (usually lightning coil or MoM or CoD unless you're CI) PLUS in many cases (or all cases) still need cwdt-ec-ic, at a minimum.

Beyond that many players would still require well rolled or unique flasks with some EHP increasing auras and life on every single gear slot and even then still die sometimes to some bullshit combo of mods. It's fucking absurd.

I mean sure, it's supposed to be a challenging game but I'd really like to be able to get some damage nodes in an hc build. As it stands I get no more than 10-20 out of 100+ points invested into damage and still have to skip some content, and I'm not talking about necromancers where the dps can't clear the mobs fast enough. You still can't survive some damage combos.

As a side note, I wouldn't do balance discussions in context of HC, and iirc, PoE devs have stated the game is not balanced around HC

Any ranger with 200+ DPS bow can easy kill Atziri w/o any problem in a sec
Any ranger with 300+ DPS bow can easy kill UBER w/o any problem in a sec


Melee request a lot more ( MUCH MUCH MORE! ) time and more defense to do the same as ranger can with easy.

That's what i call WELL BALANCED meta.

Most atziri service from Ranged chars, and maybe 1 from melee MAYBE.

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ThethrowawayAccountAA wrote:

Any ranger with 200+ DPS bow can easy kill Atziri w/o any problem in a sec
Any ranger with 300+ DPS bow can easy kill UBER w/o any problem in a sec


Melee request a lot more ( MUCH MUCH MORE! ) time and more defense to do the same as ranger can with easy.

That's what i call WELL BALANCED meta.

Most atziri service from Ranged chars, and maybe 1 from melee MAYBE.

First HC atziri kill was done by a melee character.

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goetzjam wrote:

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ThethrowawayAccountAA wrote:

Any ranger with 200+ DPS bow can easy kill Atziri w/o any problem in a sec
Any ranger with 300+ DPS bow can easy kill UBER w/o any problem in a sec


Melee request a lot more ( MUCH MUCH MORE! ) time and more defense to do the same as ranger can with easy.

That's what i call WELL BALANCED meta.

Most atziri service from Ranged chars, and maybe 1 from melee MAYBE.

First HC atziri kill was done by a melee character.

Psst - I might be mixing my leagues a bit, but from what I remember...

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goetzjam wrote:

"

ThethrowawayAccountAA wrote:

Any ranger with 200+ DPS bow can easy kill Atziri w/o any problem in a sec
Any ranger with 300+ DPS bow can easy kill UBER w/o any problem in a sec


Melee request a lot more ( MUCH MUCH MORE! ) time and more defense to do the same as ranger can with easy.

That's what i call WELL BALANCED meta.

Most atziri service from Ranged chars, and maybe 1 from melee MAYBE.

First HC atziri kill was done by a melee character.

WoW! One guy killed atziri from year when atziri come out and used RF wich is NOT melee at all, so now your logic says melee fine and balanced so good as ranged that kill in a sec all uber map?

90% Ranged atziri/uber service and 8% non-melee (like RF for example) and only 1-2% melee killed now meaning that melee fine? Nice nice... that's good logic and good way to think.

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deteego wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

It already is path of life nodes.

It's more than that in fact. You can't even play hc by just getting lots of life, big life values don't even cut it. You need insane life PLUS big resist overcapped PLUS lots of armor/ev PLUS something else (usually lightning coil or MoM or CoD unless you're CI) PLUS in many cases (or all cases) still need cwdt-ec-ic, at a minimum.

Beyond that many players would still require well rolled or unique flasks with some EHP increasing auras and life on every single gear slot and even then still die sometimes to some bullshit combo of mods. It's fucking absurd.

I mean sure, it's supposed to be a challenging game but I'd really like to be able to get some damage nodes in an hc build. As it stands I get no more than 10-20 out of 100+ points invested into damage and still have to skip some content, and I'm not talking about necromancers where the dps can't clear the mobs fast enough. You still can't survive some damage combos.

As a side note, I wouldn't do balance discussions in context of HC, and iirc, PoE devs have stated the game is not balanced around HC

Quote please. POE has always been known as a hardcore game, and why anyone would balance around sc where cast on death is a viable build I have no idea.

RF is more melee than what most people call melee.
It's sure as hell closer to the enemies than Reave or ST.

I do disagree with bending an argument over a single data point. In aggregate, ranged builds clear harder areas with less gear faster and more safely than melee.

Separately, is "melee = hard mode" intended by the developers?
If not, then there's a ton of work to do.
If so, can melee still technically clear all the content?
If not, then melee needs some targeted buffs.
If so, then it's good as it stands right now.

Only GGG can answer the first question.

People empirically answer the latter, and it appears to be true that melee, with enough gear and luck and patience, can clear all the content in the game.

---

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deteego wrote:

As a side note, I wouldn't do balance discussions in context of HC, and iirc, PoE devs have stated the game is not balanced around HC

The devs have stated multiple times that the game is balanced around HC.

Iirc the first atziri kill was done with spectral THROW. Wtb melee throwing build

If your build primarily does damage with a ranged or casted skill it's not melee

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WoW! One guy killed atziri from year when atziri come out and used RF wich is NOT melee at all, so now your logic says melee fine and balanced so good as ranged that kill in a sec all uber map?

See here is the problem you don't have any idea what you are talking about, the first HC kill was done by HvC, here is his stream: It was soultaker+bor+aegis aurora

http://www.twitch.tv/havoc616/

Mors was the other person that killed regular atziri only minutes after HvC did it (and he was using RF).

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90% Ranged atziri/uber service and 8% non-melee (like RF for example) and only 1-2% melee killed now meaning that melee fine? Nice nice... that's good logic and good way to think.

If you want to bring atziri and uber atziri in with regards to balance then present the FACTS not just your opinion, every single % you have listed is incorrect as you have no way to know that data. Am I saying melee is all fine and dandy because the first hc kill was done by it, no, but what I am saying is even melee builds can do atziri\uber atziri.

Secondly atziri\uber atziri is simply once piece of the game, they force characters to have certain stats that other maps don't need. Hell some characters specialized for atziri may struggle in higher level maps.

As for melee needing adjustments it sure does for some of the hardcore players at least. I think part of the problem is bloodline mobs screw melee builds every chance they get, where ranged can typically play safer and kite mobs.

I think nerfing BoR was a huge mistake the item provided unique stats for melee builds, only reason they nerfed it was because of block changes, even then I think it would have been acceptable to leave it alone.

@throwaway, why not post on your main account, this is feedback forums, why hide behind an alt just to express your opinion?

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goetzjam wrote:

Secondly atziri\uber atziri is simply once piece of the game, they force characters to have certain stats that other maps don't need. Hell some characters specialized for atziri may struggle in higher level maps.

I am doing this right now.

I have to play well, but can farm Uber pretty easily. I'll tell you this, the build is absolute dogshit for mapping. Very much preferred my pre-1.3 build (got hit by the nerf-nuke) which could barely do Uber with flawless execution (and pretty fucking good gear).

For the Alluring Abyss I'd classify myself as pseudo-ranged since I don't melee hit anything in that zone except the unique monsters.