You are being way too restrictive with acrobatics. Needs FULL redesign.

"



The nerf was necessary, going about it in the way they did was not. There are other things they could have done to nerf block, such as simply capping it at 40%. Moreoever, doubling the penalty for acrobatics users was improper. If they don't want acrobatics characters to reach high block levels, cap block for acrobatics users at the default value (24-32% for whatever shield you might be using, 15% for dual wielders) so that AT LEAST default builds can get the default for their class without getting nerfed for no reason.
I mean literally, I can take the default shadow (glass shank with viper strike) add the offhand of ANY AVAILABLE CHOICE and go to the nearest keystone (which IS acrobatics, tied with CI and conduit) and immediately lose a good portion of said benefit for picking up that offhand. That's bad design.



GGG didn't want to cap block at 40% they wanted players to have to invest more heavily in getting max block from the tree and gear AND stop players from using it with the keystone designed to have strong, but powerful drawbacks.



"
As I've already said, if you're going to be a ranged bow build as a shadow, why did you pick shadow? Reroll ranger because odds are it will be more efficient. At this point we can just move acrobatics into the ranger starter tree.


You might pick shadow because of better access to crit nodes or ele nodes. Doesn't matter where they put something, just because it is located in a certain location in the tree doesn't mean it was there because of easier access for those classes, GGG specifically moved other keystones away from the witch\scion area because of it being too powerful for those classes, this might be the case with Acro, I personally don't know why its located there.




"


I'm not going to fix everything for the developers. If I come up with the cut and dry best idea for fixing these skills, your next comment will be "but they have to code it first! Are you going to code it for them? No? Then you're wrong to suggest this." No, I'm not wrong to suggest it, I'm giving my feedback - which is valid given the state they've created and that there are other solutions. And which feedback is the point of this forum, suggestions are for the suggestion forum.

Again, I agree with you fully that some nerf was necessary. My problem is that the change is a direct nerf to 75%+ of all the available build options for the 2 classes nearest to the node, leaving only the ranged bow users to fully benefit from the node. And those untouched bow builds were the biggest offenders last patch, rolling over atziri with trash rares they picked up from docks and still are that way this update. Meanwhile the ever-suffering melee options continue to get nerfed. Lol


My next thing won't have anything to do with they have to code it, that is there job to figure out how to do it, as players its our job to come up with ideas on how these balance changes affect the way our builds are used.

Who cares if you can't go melee max block acro anymore, it wasn't that popular of a build before and now its even less of an option. Complaining about other builds is just poor thinking, coming up with a new and intivate build every few months when the tree changes or items change on the other hand is the way you should be thinking, but hey what do I know I don't ever go max block acro.

https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
"
goetzjam wrote:
"
Peterlerock wrote:

Logical consequence:
Don't max block when you are intending to take the Acro keystone.
Wear a shield if you want to for a bit of extra survivability like Panini_aux_olives described, but ffs, do not touch shield nodes.


Right that just further proves my point, invest in one or the other not both. Both before was OP, if anyone doesn't think it was please PM me why you think so.



ya it was stupidly powerful. they fixed acrobatics, its fine now as it is. you are either going block or you are going acro, no more getting both because why not?

I see it as a node to provide block to bow users, thats how I view the node primarily and secondary to give evaders now an alternative to block. 5 points for 40% block 30% spell block? wut? lol, and its better than block, block stuns you, dodge doesnt. It was just too good, simple as that rly.


I have an evasion + ondars + acro + coil ranger using a dagger + shield, its one of the most ferocious melee characters Ive seen and the defense levels are insane. Why still acro now? Well can I take my 26% base shield block and make it 40% + 30% spell block using 5 nodes on my current tree? No. and it doesnt stun? Ok, and I still get to keep 70% of my shield block? ...come on, that node is still nuts for evasion melee, absolutely nuts. Its so powerful that it needs those restrictions on layering it with other forms of mitigation.


"


But that choice, now I look at it, completely removes ANY point to dual-wield blocking. It takes a lot of nodes to get to 40% DW block, which is essentially what Acrobatics does. So if dual-wield blocking is out, why even have nodes for it? I'm really quite confused.



because you are armour or armour+evasion hybrid and cant take the armour loss of acrobatics.
"
goetzjam wrote:
"



The nerf was necessary, going about it in the way they did was not. There are other things they could have done to nerf block, such as simply capping it at 40%. Moreoever, doubling the penalty for acrobatics users was improper. If they don't want acrobatics characters to reach high block levels, cap block for acrobatics users at the default value (24-32% for whatever shield you might be using, 15% for dual wielders) so that AT LEAST default builds can get the default for their class without getting nerfed for no reason.
I mean literally, I can take the default shadow (glass shank with viper strike) add the offhand of ANY AVAILABLE CHOICE and go to the nearest keystone (which IS acrobatics, tied with CI and conduit) and immediately lose a good portion of said benefit for picking up that offhand. That's bad design.



GGG didn't want to cap block at 40% they wanted players to have to invest more heavily in getting max block from the tree and gear AND stop players from using it with the keystone designed to have strong, but powerful drawbacks.



"
As I've already said, if you're going to be a ranged bow build as a shadow, why did you pick shadow? Reroll ranger because odds are it will be more efficient. At this point we can just move acrobatics into the ranger starter tree.


You might pick shadow because of better access to crit nodes or ele nodes. Doesn't matter where they put something, just because it is located in a certain location in the tree doesn't mean it was there because of easier access for those classes, GGG specifically moved other keystones away from the witch\scion area because of it being too powerful for those classes, this might be the case with Acro, I personally don't know why its located there.




"


I'm not going to fix everything for the developers. If I come up with the cut and dry best idea for fixing these skills, your next comment will be "but they have to code it first! Are you going to code it for them? No? Then you're wrong to suggest this." No, I'm not wrong to suggest it, I'm giving my feedback - which is valid given the state they've created and that there are other solutions. And which feedback is the point of this forum, suggestions are for the suggestion forum.

Again, I agree with you fully that some nerf was necessary. My problem is that the change is a direct nerf to 75%+ of all the available build options for the 2 classes nearest to the node, leaving only the ranged bow users to fully benefit from the node. And those untouched bow builds were the biggest offenders last patch, rolling over atziri with trash rares they picked up from docks and still are that way this update. Meanwhile the ever-suffering melee options continue to get nerfed. Lol


My next thing won't have anything to do with they have to code it, that is there job to figure out how to do it, as players its our job to come up with ideas on how these balance changes affect the way our builds are used.

Who cares if you can't go melee max block acro anymore, it wasn't that popular of a build before and now its even less of an option. Complaining about other builds is just poor thinking, coming up with a new and intivate build every few months when the tree changes or items change on the other hand is the way you should be thinking, but hey what do I know I don't ever go max block acro.



They have jobs to make melee balanced too, we all see how that turned out.

Bottom line this nerf affected 0 ranged builds and all the melee builds. If you think that is acceptable given the current game state I don't know that I can call you a reasonable person.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Personally I'd go back to 20%--->30% dodge, and drop the shield penalty. I was a heavy evader/accro user back in the old days when evasion was ridiculed (from ignorance mostly) and I just laughed when they bumped accro to 40%. It's really too opee.
Last edited by Thalandor on Dec 18, 2014, 1:37:20 PM
"
Legatus1982 wrote:

They have jobs to make melee balanced too, we all see how that turned out.

Bottom line this nerf affected 0 ranged builds and all the melee builds. If you think that is acceptable given the current game state I don't know that I can call you a reasonable person.



Did not effect none of my evasion melee builds, since I never personally went block with them.


"
Thalandor wrote:
Personally I'd go back to 20%--->30% dodge, and drop the shield penalty. I was a heavy evader/accro user back in the old days when evasion was ridiculed (from ignorance mostly) and I just laughed when they bumped it to 40%. It's really too opee.



No, I actually prefer it this way. Want to max block, or get near it, stay away from acro, other wise become a dodger like me, and dodge like the wind. This is diversity.


Of course, GGG overdid the whole block nerf, so the penalty on Acrobatics was just the icing on the cake.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Dec 18, 2014, 1:26:52 PM
"


They have jobs to make melee balanced too, we all see how that turned out.

Bottom line this nerf affected 0 ranged builds and all the melee builds. If you think that is acceptable given the current game state I don't know that I can call you a reasonable person.


People complaining about melee nerfs crack me up. We all know melee is not in a good place, however you can see they added MORE damage to melee block nodes in the tree to try and make up for the block nodes being reduced.

This nerf affects ranged builds because now spectral throw or whatever builds don't benefit as much from block if they go acro. In addition pseudo ranged builds like incinerate can still almost get max block but now have less damage if they do so.

I think its perfectly acceptable, people play melee for niche builds currently because that is all they really are good at. Permastun, knockback, freeze, ect.

GGG added the bubble minions and the suppressors in act 3 scepter (which are in maps and such too) to nerf ranged builds, they made fire dogs have far shot (which increases damage the further you are from it) To say that GGG hasn't tried to come up with interesting solutions and ideas to make ranged/melee almost as viable is just ignorant. They introduced Cwdt and we see ranged builds utilizing it.

Ultimately it comes down to why would you wanna go into melee vs things that hit hard when you can dps from afar and take less risk. With these new gems it now gives you a little advantage to being in melee.

Simply stating we see how that turned out doesn't really offer anything GGG can use as feedback, its just complaint with no solutions or suggestions.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by goetzjam on Dec 18, 2014, 1:25:58 PM
I think acrobatics could be more interesting if they would tweak it slightly. The following shows some ideas

Acrobatics
30% Chance to Dodge Attacks
50% Reduced Armor (not less)
33% Less Energy Shield
15% Less Block Chance (we hurt block less since we lowered the max block cap)
-15% max block

The idea is that 50% less to two major defenses and 30% less block is pretty big.

I think they added block reduction for the people whom could go pure block for defenses and then pick up Acrobatics for free, getting hit only 15% of the time.

This is only an example. I threw in a couple new ideas that could be played with while attempting to seek the right balance, but no one idea is necessarily mandatory for such.
if you really have to avoid projectiles then go acrobatics + ondars
otherwise just go Iron reflexes, it does cost you less points and stacking armour is by far the better defense as melee as the low chance to evade alone imho

but well melee isnt really viable in lategame HC anyway so...

you are talking about the good build diversity 1.3 offers. Really look around... 80% of all builds I saw till now are flameblast, 10% arc and 10% all the other rest...
Last edited by azraelb on Dec 18, 2014, 2:40:23 PM
"
azraelb wrote:
if you really have to avoid projectiles then go acrobatics + ondars
otherwise just go Iron reflexes, it does cost you less points and stacking armour is by far the better defense as melee as the low chance to evade alone imho

but well melee isnt really viable in lategame HC anyway so...

you are talking about the good build diversity 1.3 offers. Really look around... 80% of all builds I saw till now are flameblast, 10% arc and 10% all the other rest...


So there is more then one option in mitigating damage now that you don't just get acro for free anymore.

Melee is niche builds, with the new gems they help, but melee is just melee. Complaining about the block nerfs hurting melee is just beating a dead horse at this point, as not all melee builds even used 1hand+shield, quite a lot are 2 handed.

Please give a source before you start spouting nonsense, you can't possible know what the ratios are for builds because you aren't GGG or associated with GGG. Trying to pretend like you know what is being played just makes me laugh.


As for @gregoriel

I think they could do somethings different like you mentioned, but maybe not those values. Reduced armor not less would just be pointless, because the duelist\ranger can easily get that many armor nodes via regular pathing.

I actually like the block changes, however in the specific case of llpvp idk how that would change things.

But seriously, @gregoriel you are onto something.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by goetzjam on Dec 18, 2014, 2:48:26 PM
"
goetzjam wrote:


As for @gregoriel

I think they could do somethings different like you mentioned, but maybe not those values. Reduced armor not less would just be pointless, because the duelist\ranger can easily get that many armor nodes via regular pathing.

I actually like the block changes, however in the specific case of llpvp idk how that would change things.

But seriously, @gregoriel you are onto something.


Yeah, my goal was to hurt max block more than regular lower block users. After all, they already lowered block on everything...

But those exact numbers are far from balanced.

Particularly, I'd like to see every build consider Acrobatics. Not to take it, but to be capable of thinking about it a little more. If you're not a Ranger or a Shadow, it becomes a more costly pathing issue anyway.

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