You are being way too restrictive with acrobatics. Needs FULL redesign.

Bow evasion rangers are literally the only ones who fully benefit from acrobatics at this point in time. Literally every other option is cut out of the picture now. As one of the classes positioned directly in front of the node (ranger and shadow are both 10 points from acrobatics) is shadow, it is logical to assume shadows are intended to possibly take acrobatics.

Unfortunately, all of the shadow's intended gear options are removed when taking acrobatics:

All shields, because 30% less block (and 50% less ES on one of the two base options)
(AKA, thou shalt not use shields while being acrobatics)

All dual wield options, because 30% less block
(AKA, thou shalt not be melee while being acrobatics)
(AKA, thou shalt not be dual wander while being acrobatics)
(AKA, thou shalt not be dual wield caster while being acrobatics)

All the intended EV/ES gear, because 50% less ES
(AKA, thou shalt not wear thy intended gear sets while taking thy intended keystones)

So we are left with bows and full EV gear, a ranger. At which point, why are shadows even by this keystone?
(AKA, thou shalt be better off rerolling ranger when taking thy intended keystones as shadow)

Oh but wait, there's more. Rangers have melee nodes in their starter tree. HERPDERP
(AKA, thou shalt not take thy intended starter nodes with thy intended keystones)

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...................

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TLDR/recap:
Shadows can use 0 pieces of their intended gear sets while using one of their intended keystones
Rangers can use (less than really) one-half of their intended weapon options while using their intended keystones (melee phys damage nodes + acro DW/shield block autonerf herpderprofflebogglebbq)

I understand there are balance considerations and that block RIGHTFULLY got nerfed, but this keystone is WAY too restrictive when the intended classes can't even use it for 75%+ of their INTENDED build options. A better redesign is needed.

I would make suggestions, but it's not really difficult to come up with better solutions, and really block has already been nerfed even without block on this node anyways, why does it need a double nerf? There are better choices here people.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
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Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982 on Dec 14, 2014, 10:25:32 PM
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Pretty sure it wasn't designed as a melee cluster to begin with.

EDIT: The simple fact that the first node cost you a LOT of defense is why I believe that is the case.
Last edited by SL4Y3R on Dec 14, 2014, 10:40:41 PM
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Pretty sure it wasn't designed as a melee cluster to begin with.

EDIT: The simple fact that the first node cost you a LOT of defense is why I believe that is the case.


Not sure how to respond to this. Both classes in proximity to acro have melee nodes in their starter trees. If you're a bow evasion character, you lose no defense by taking the node at all.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982 on Dec 14, 2014, 10:45:58 PM
Kinda my point. the Dodge is supposed to make up for the lack of block on a bow character.

E: fixed
Last edited by SL4Y3R on Dec 14, 2014, 11:15:37 PM
I still go acrobatics with my DW melee characters simply because acrobatics + phase acrobatics is too good to pass up.




Edit: I have a Shadow that is EV/ES DW melee, and I went EB because there was not much ES (around 400-600) to mitigate damage, so I made them all mana for more mana and mana regen. I know I might lose some mana going to acrobatic because of EB, but it is well worth getting dodge and spell dodge.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Dec 14, 2014, 11:35:00 PM
"
"
SL4Y3R wrote:
Pretty sure it wasn't designed as a melee cluster to begin with.

EDIT: The simple fact that the first node cost you a LOT of defense is why I believe that is the case.


It was fine with block in play. I think you're absolutely wrong in thinking it was designed to be a ranged-only keystone+cluster. Don't make excuses for bad/inconsistent design. I've never called you what others call you and I never will, but that sort of after-the-fact rationalisation leads to all sorts of bad things. It leads to stymied development and stunted tree growth.

A/PA is in a bad place, in all senses of the word.


Not making excuses lol. It was a guess based on the simple fact that it provided a form of defense for bow characters, with no cost. But had a cost for melee.
"
SL4Y3R wrote:

Not making excuses lol. It was a guess based on the simple fact that it provided a form of defense for bow characters, with no cost. But had a cost for melee.


What about melee evasion characters?
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942
"
NeroNoah wrote:
"
SL4Y3R wrote:

Not making excuses lol. It was a guess based on the simple fact that it provided a form of defense for bow characters, with no cost. But had a cost for melee.


What about melee evasion characters?


They have block.

E: You meant cost. Sorry. Unsure honestly. Like I said, was just stating that the design flow made me think it was originally intended more for bow users. That's it.
Last edited by SL4Y3R on Dec 15, 2014, 12:10:36 AM
"


Uhm, 40% chance to dodge attacks at the cost of pretty much all your dual-wield block might seem good...but I suppose it's just not a choice we had to ask before because dodge+dw block wasn't really in that bad a place. Between the node reduction and Acrobatics' new drawback, I'm really confused. It seems like they meant to nerf one or the other but not both, but then both copped it anyway.

But that choice, now I look at it, completely removes ANY point to dual-wield blocking. It takes a lot of nodes to get to 40% DW block, which is essentially what Acrobatics does. So if dual-wield blocking is out, why even have nodes for it? I'm really quite confused.

Also, you don't get to call yourself an EV/ES *anything* if you take EB.



Since I barely specced into EV/ES nodes, and is too costly for my build to allocate into DW block nodes, EB was the way to go with what remaining ES I had. I mostly allocated into life/mana nodes and claw nodes.


After that, I needed another defense mitigation since I could not just rely on instant leech from Bloodseeker, evasion, and Ondar's Guile alone. I needed acro and phase acro no matter what.



As for EV/ES, my lower half is ES, and my upper half is EV. ;)






Though, I do understand that going EB takes out the ES from the defense equation, but I used it for offense.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016

Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Dec 15, 2014, 12:12:12 AM
The "true" Shadow (int/dex) defensive type would be CI eva/es body armors with a fast recharge rate. Medium sized buffer that recharges quickly, and evasions/dodges stop enemy damage from resetting the recharge time. Bam, simple as.

... But given that GGG is infinitely reluctant to actually implement this defense for reasons completely opaque to everyone, we've got what we've got.

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