increasing amount of legacy items - unsportsmanlike

"

Dan1986 wrote:

just do it like the d3 devs: introduce a new tier of items, scale everything up.

Then came the big fire...(patch):

All items before the patch became basically worthless. Why is this good? It's an easy excuse to move on with the game to reset the economy. Nobody complains because of new content.

That's what we need. And by now I also got all legacies I needed to enjoy my build. But it's still such a pain trading those exalts...I totally understand why people don't like the path of trading.

That is something that GGG has claimed they will never do (though we know now how worthless such claims are).

They don't want to introduce a whole new tier because they don't want people to feel like all their work up to that point is second-rate and invalidated.

This specifically came up in design conversations during the heyday of "WoW's ever-increasing tiers" back when the game was still in nascent design, and it was a unanimous agreement to not go down that dark path.

"

pneuma wrote:

They don't want to introduce a whole new tier because they don't want people to feel like all their work up to that point is second-rate and invalidated.

Legacy items already do this. To some, the legacy items makes new builds feel second-rate and invalidated.

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Antnee wrote:

"

Dan1986 wrote:

...
All items before the patch became basically worthless. Why is this good? It's an easy excuse to move on with the game to reset the economy. Nobody complains because of new content.

That's what we need. And by now I also got all legacies I needed to enjoy my build. But it's still such a pain trading those exalts...I totally understand why people don't like the path of trading.

Who is "we", exactly? It sure as hell isn't me.

This is a problem that exists solely in people's minds. A few people. Changing my stash to meet your needs is the height of too-muchery.

calling him out on the "WE" and then saying something like:

..only in people's minds...
..a few people..

;-)



P.S.: I guess the thread can be closed. Nothing much that could be added anymore....

"

A game needs to offer fair (the same) chances for everyone.

Yea. Nobody in challenge leagues can buy them. Anyone can buy them in Standard. So... wheres the problem?

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Dan1986 wrote:

just do it like the d3 devs: introduce a new tier of items, scale everything up.

Then came the big fire...(patch):

All items before the patch became basically worthless. Why is this good? It's an easy excuse to move on with the game to reset the economy. Nobody complains because of new content.

That's what we need. And by now I also got all legacies I needed to enjoy my build. But it's still such a pain trading those exalts...I totally understand why people don't like the path of trading.

Terrible thing to do - we have so many items designed around one power level, and now you want to start creating NEW tier from the scratch? Creating that many uniques, which we have now (ok, not every is a end-game balanced, but lets assume it is 20% of them) took a LONG time. And now you want them to join the worthless tier, just because there are legacies? You think this next, new, tier won't have legacies in it?

The system needs to change. Covering it with flowers won't make it any better.

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Antnee wrote:

Who is "we", exactly? It sure as hell isn't me.

This is a problem that exists solely in people's minds. A few people. Changing my stash to meet your needs is the height of too-muchery.

Can we stop with this crap already? Nobody is going to REMOVE your items. Nobody is going to STEAL your stuff. They could just be changed to what EVERYONE ELSE IS ABLE TO GET.
I wonder why you don't complain about GGG changing the skill tree in order to bring THEIR balance to YOUR skill tree. Or that they are changing YOUR skill gems to achieve THEIR balance.

"

Darth_Silegy wrote:

"

A game needs to offer fair (the same) chances for everyone.

Yea. Nobody in challenge leagues can buy them. Anyone can buy them in Standard. So... wheres the problem?

The problems is to save up currencies you need gears to grind. Where do those gears come from?

Non-legacy players believe those good gears mostly come from legacy players who have IIQ gem and other legacy items grinding more efficiently than any non-legacy players. Feeling this way is quite natural, so negating this reality does not do any good to the game. Anyway, I know everyone here already do understand, whether agree or not, how ppl feel when legacy items pervade.


GGG has settled down in current situation, so there is nothing worth discussing here.
Probably they must be the one who do understand the best how players see the current situation.

Actually, GGG is now trying to reduce the negative effect of legacy items each time they introduce new leagues, by changing the skill tree etc. And as we already know, GGG needs several years more to address existing issues of several years old.

"Wait (many years) and see" is the only thing actually we can do.

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Perq wrote:

"

Antnee wrote:

Who is "we", exactly? It sure as hell isn't me.

This is a problem that exists solely in people's minds. A few people. Changing my stash to meet your needs is the height of too-muchery.

Can we stop with this crap already? Nobody is going to REMOVE your items. Nobody is going to STEAL your stuff. They could just be changed to what EVERYONE ELSE IS ABLE TO GET.
I wonder why you don't complain about GGG changing the skill tree in order to bring THEIR balance to YOUR skill tree. Or that they are changing YOUR skill gems to achieve THEIR balance.

You seriously don't get the difference between a rule change and an item change?

Also, you ARE able to get legacy items. They are not account locked. Buy them if you want them. As I asked before- why are we not having this discussion over mirrored gear? That certainly isn't going to drop for you either, so why not nerf it to whatever level you find personally satisfying?

This is an age-old, tired argument.

"

Antnee wrote:

You seriously don't get the difference between a rule change and an item change?

Also, you ARE able to get legacy items. They are not account locked. Buy them if you want them. As I asked before- why are we not having this discussion over mirrored gear? That certainly isn't going to drop for you either, so why not nerf it to whatever level you find personally satisfying?

This is an age-old, tired argument.

Item changes are rule changes. Doesn't matter if the math is done from the tree or from the gear, math is still math to a computer. Why do some still get to play with old rules?

There are not enough legacy items out there for everyone to get due to limited supply. Most players cannot earn them just from playing/trading in PoE but there are other outside ways to acquire them.

Lots of mirrored gear has legacy stats. It's just sicking that they are still in the game, using the old rules. You do want the highest crit multiplier on your dagger or bow don't you?

You rarely see new mirrored gear because you cannot craft new gear to compete with the old crafted legacy rares. The players that sell mirrored items just sit back for free loot with NO worry's of competition.

When players do find a Mirror of Kalandra in the temp leagues, most are told to hold on to it until the end and sell it in standard for a hell of a lot more..... this is one of the many ways legacy items affect the economy in temp leagues. Yes, the legacy items do affect the economy in the 3 month leagues.

Edit:
In my opinion mirrored items should of been limited to one copy of the base item, and the base item gets a implicit mod saying it cannot be mirrored anymore. This is a whole other subject.

Path of Exile 2 cannot get here fast enough so I can start playing a ARPG again. As much as I want to, I refuse to play PoE anymore.

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Antnee wrote:

You seriously don't get the difference between a rule change and an item change?´

items are part of the body of rules.

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Antnee wrote:

Also, you ARE able to get legacy items. They are not account locked. Buy them if you want them.

this is true, but the difference of their pre-/after legacy-status values has changed dramatically and since this arpg is built around trading (especially if it's a legacy item, which you can ONLY obtain by trading nowadays) they have a significant (negative) impact on players arriving later.

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Antnee wrote:

As I asked before- why are we not having this discussion over mirrored gear? That certainly isn't going to drop for you either, so why not nerf it to whatever level you find personally satisfying?

this is only correct if: it were not possible to craft some stuff nowadays as it was possible some time ago (meaning that some crafting stats became legacy and are not available anymore, while those legacy crafts still are allowed in the game). If that is the case. I should and would complain about this as much as I complain about legacy items because it is as unfair as legacy unique items. Please don't accuse ME (I don't want to speak for others) of being inconsistent in my accusation. Thx for reminding me I added it to my starting post under "EDIT 4".

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Antnee wrote:

This is an age-old, tired argument.

I don't see the logic behind: old = tired
watch Atheism vs Theism on youtube...very much alive topic although age-old.