increasing amount of legacy items - unsportsmanlike

I thought I made my math pretty clear, but Shav's was [999-1000] before and it was [999-1000] after. Pure chancing was 100% unaffected by adding Infernal Mantle.

Now if you wanted to talk about scour+chance, that's a whole different beast.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

in all seriousness, for pve this is a non issue as most new league have a mechanic that makes it shit loot ( case in point torment loot piniata ghosts)

Couldn't agree more.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

but it is an issue in pvp when one guy has a 1000% face breaker and the other guy does not.

in which case perhaps there should be some way to check a mod against the current max and bar it from pvp... (This is a good idea, and doesn't fuck with anyone's stash.)

legacy items in pvp is actually why i find the whole idea of standard being the setting for pvp rather strange.

also arent kaoms alot cheaper these days on account that most rf builds just use a 100 life str armor or belly of the beast or carcass jack?


legacy kaoms back in the day were 30 exa , i saw one a few weeks ago going for 6 exa. Id say 6 is easier to get than 30

Now you're hitting at the heart of the matter. PvP is the only conceivable way that the items someone else owns could affect me, other than simple jealousy.

And, I agree! It's problematic. Exactly HOW problematic it is would just be speculating... unless two players enter the arena with the exact same skill tree, skill gems, and gear, with the exception of one player wearing a legacy version.

Even then, a player with better reflexes/skills/luck could win.

The thing is, though, there is nothing preventing anyone from acquiring those items with enough time and effort put in. For the most part, legacy items aren't even close to the most expensive things in POE; mirrored gear is leaps and bounds more expensive.

...But I don't see anyone crying for that gear to be removed, even though it realistically has the same chance of dropping as a legacy Kaoms.

"

pneuma wrote:

I thought I made my math pretty clear, but Shav's was [999-1000] before and it was [999-1000] after. Pure chancing was 100% unaffected by adding Infernal Mantle.

Now if you wanted to talk about scour+chance, that's a whole different beast.

I repied to someone mentioning legacy items, especially koam. I wanted to clarify why the chance of creating/finding a koam has changed back then an now.

By the way while i don't play standard i highly doubt legacy koams are going for 6 exalted right now. However i may be wrong.

I presume this is an issue in Standard and Hardcore base leagues only? Well they don't matter. It's all about the temp leagues.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

They don't matter to you.

They matter to GGG and a fairly sizable portion of the playerbase.

And I bet I know which of the two matters more.

And I bet which matters more to GGG, the league players (majority) or the legacy players (minority).

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

"

MissDerry wrote:

I presume this is an issue in Standard and Hardcore base leagues only? Well they don't matter. It's all about the temp leagues.

They don't matter to you.

They matter to GGG and a fairly sizable portion of the playerbase.

And I bet I know which of the two matters more.

Don;t get me wrong. Im not going for the "scrubcore" approach here. I meant purely in the competative sense. I feel no competition in Standard at all. Hardcore base league maybe (only a little in the sense of having a lvl100 char).

Why balance standard when there is no competition? Because of PvP? Then surely the solution is to make them play PvP in a seperate league from standard? One where the items are based on current stats and balance.

ps. nobody cares about scrubcore muhahahah /runs away.

I am totally with you. Has been discussed before. They blamed it on some technical issue and then wrote "legacy items are part of the game" blabla, exactly sounded like get used to it or dont, whatever ~

edit: I didnt ready anything beside OP's post but 17 pages are already telling me that many whiners and defenders of legacy items came back in to post as always.

1.) if anyone could direct me to where Chris or any other GGG-member adressed the technical problems with legacy items I would be grateful.

2.) I would really love to know from Chris why such selfproclaimed hardcore ARPG-lovers like themselves could have possibly forgotton of implementing a way to fix overpowered items without leaving legacy items in the game. Wouldn't that be among the first things to think about when/before making an ARPG?

3.) And as follow-up-question: why couldn't they come up with a solution to this in the past 2-3 years? [I'm am not saying they have to - they don't]

These questions, I am asking them out of pure curiosity. I vented already and am not angry anymore, so they are not meant in an offensive way ;-)

"

DasName wrote:

Out of arguments, arn't you?
Thought so :D .

[...]
I would prefere no legacy items at all however i don't play standard.
However i do care about the facts.

Because he is right, and you're being fucking ignorant. Maybe that is why he doesn't want to go on with it.

Also, can you go away? You are making people who doesn't want legacies look like fucking tools.
And stop derailing the discussion with some random number of Kaom's drop rates and other stuff. What you gonna do? Take items away from people, because drop rate was lowered? Point is invalid, how invalid can get.

As for "^" OP's post:

1) google.
2) google.
3) google.
It has been said before. You not knowing the issues and starting the thread is... not really good.

"

Antigegner wrote:

1.) if anyone could direct me to where Chris or any other GGG-member adressed the technical problems with legacy items I would be grateful.

2.) I would really love to know from Chris why such selfproclaimed hardcore ARPG-lovers like themselves could have possibly forgotton of implementing a way to fix overpowered items without leaving legacy items in the game. Wouldn't that be among the first things to think about when/before making an ARPG?

3.) And as follow-up-question: why couldn't they come up with a solution to this in the past 2-3 years? [I'm am not saying they have to - they don't]

These questions, I am asking them out of pure curiosity. I vented already and am not angry anymore, so they are not meant in an offensive way ;-)

1) Paraphrasing a bit, but if the item is being nerfed on a numerical stat, that would be a database migration. They're 100% unwilling to do such a thing since it could potentially risk bricking a realm full of items Kiwihalt-style and potentially killing the game and putting GGG out of business. It would also require significant server downtime, which hurts business.

2) Something changed at GGG HQ.
- Early on, there were routine wipes that solved the legacy problem.
- Later, they said that they would avoid legacy at all costs, and would excessively test new things before adding them to make sure they'd be okay.
- Later, they decided the first legacy would be Silverbranch, because it was centralizing racing (which isn't even the core game, it's a different game mode).
- Later, they decided to get into the habit of introducing "league" uniques which automatically legacy themselves at the end of the league.
- Now legacies are almost to be expected with every major patch.

I expect that they didn't think about it until roughly the Silverbranch moment, at which point they were already in too deep.

3) They have a way to avoid legacies for mechanics which can be "globally changed" without touching the database. CoE used to point to the "converts all spell damage modifiers to attack" mechanic, now it points to "converts all non-multiplicative spell damage modifiers to attack" mechanic.

For numerical changes to increased/reduced/more/less modifiers, their current model has them handcuffed. Their only real option for this is the database migration which, due to #1, they will not do.

---

So, their design and decisions forced them into legacy. It's not even about liking it or convincing everyone to like it or getting everyone to realize that obviously legacies don't affect anything... it's just the way that it's going to be unless they take the plunge (with kid gloves on) and go dig into the database and eat the downtime cost and risk of fucking themselves over.

The best suggestion so far ITT is to scan your items and disallow you entry to PvP if the item is found to be a legacy. This avoids all the nastiness except the one where they have to have a public "PvP banned items" list, and wear it like a badge of shame.