Untained paradise no surprise

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Bjarmfark wrote:

Since I know that every time zana opens it it only has one portal to the crumbled map device.

people who pay for access can freely enter and leave through the portal without it closing.

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Bjarmfark wrote:

So when you comfirm that it is a paradise mission its too late to sell.

that would have been the case if zana only opened the amount of portals for people in the party at the time of the quest retrieval and inside the lab.



i think ggg saw untainted paradise as a occasional goodie to people doing their dailies and underestimated the level of cooperation between players in this game ;-)
would be nice to ask chris on his reasons in one of these (state of exile)-podcasts.

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torturo wrote:

GGG have the bad habit of nerfing/reworking anything that is fun and a bit easy to achieve, though it may not affect the ingame balance at all.
Or troll moves like the noob trap in shrines, also the inconvenient corrupted area boss in docks, which are outfarmed zones, etc.
I can't accept Untained caused any form in imbalance out of races.
Sometimes I think they got a weird perverse desire to punish players with hate. May be wrong, it's just a feeling.

just read the comments here and on reddit: players who mostly solo and aren't that organized or in a guild and /or not familiar with the game saw one paradise instance at the most in rampage/beyound) while others chain ran them, progressing fast from beating dominus to level 85.
you will be surprised on how many players (i met some) play this game skillful but just casually and haven't heard of many game features because their time is limited and they can't read the forum on a regular basis.
if the ingame progress is overly dependent on your ability to interact with the community and you get a serious disadvantage because you (however) can't, youre getting seriously dissapointed. and not a happy and donating customer.

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geradon wrote:

you will be surprised on how many players (i met some) play this game skillful but just casually and haven't heard of many game features because their time is limited and they can't read the forum on a regular basis.
if the ingame progress is overly dependent on your ability to interact with the community and you get a serious disadvantage because you (however) can't, youre getting seriously dissapointed. and not a happy and donating customer.

Well, what you say makes sense. I'm in the same boat of "casual non-exploiters" as well and I find it familiar.
This way we're up to the point why ggg use to work around the game with these heavy 24/7 grinders and exploiters in mind. It's something they've constantly done, it's not new. Mechanics/features/skill exploiters simply move to another flaw they may use as an advantage, while the rest of the player base take it to the balls.
Who the hell should care about a small group of no lifers and what they do and achieve, and also how do they affect the rest, besides the top 10 positions they are subscribed for and will be, no matter what?

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It was that or just another poorly tested idea they put in and then had to ruin.

You can test as much as you want in your lab, only customer feedback is interesting, it's just the best way and fastest way to validate/un validate your ideas. And so it's the better for the community, releasing flawless content is just impossible.

But I still agree on the point of "why just not rework the race?!" from my point of view, it was very rare and very nice to boost your leveling char. But things are (need to?) balanced around organised groups.

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torturo wrote:

Who the hell should care about a small group of no lifers and what they do and achieve, and also how do they affect the rest, besides the top 10 positions they are subscribed for and will be, no matter what?

from your personal perspective that's a valid view.

from a game masters perspective, nolifers work as a archetype for casual players and it's the most important thing to balance the game's rewards for casual players and professional nolifers while keeping both sides motivated to play. both sides need their cookies from time to time.
in the last league they threw some really good cookies around: the master level 8 crafting / unique selling for the nolifers and untainted paradise for midgame players as it didn't bring much advantage for level 90+ players (except power leveling their gems without much risk).

Well, balance =/= nerf, or at least it shouldn't be, or could be as an exception to fix a dramatic flaw. I'll save my personal thoughts and experience about ggg balance skills, to avoid overreaction.

If we consider that the miniscule minority of the die hard nolife squad is the base to work around the balance, being a kind of lame post-alpha testers, well, I think it's wrong. So wrong that it's more likely not the point?

Ontopic, as a conclusion, the end result is Untained nerf won't balance anything, as it became a bad joke and people will simply forget it and avoid it, being useless and pointless to be played. What kind of balance is it to make a trash no one will touch?
I still think it could be not about balance, but the weird desire to mock on player base? Or that if it was a real attempt to fix whatever, but it failed?

Dunno what to think anymore, I lost the logic in ggg's actions a long time ago.

P.S.
I also don't care much if someone somewhere reached 85 in a day. Being a nolifer, or casual, whatever. Can't also see how it affects game and the ladder. Temp leagues are long enough to not be affected by the Untained advantage. Makes no sense to me.