Noob Arc Witch seeks advice

Hello people.

A friend recommended PoE, gave it a go and must say, I am quite impressed by its depth - long time Diabloer btw.

After a bit of forum searching, decided to go for an Arc Witch. Especially after I got the Arc gem, things went quite smoothly. I mainly used Ziggy's guides & vids as sourcing material.

Now at the tender lvl of 41 I just started Cruel and although I still kill efficiently, my survivabilty is coming into question. Here's my gear:



And here's my Passives tree (6 refund points):

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMABAcI9BBYEQ8fAh_HK3gsnC19LYsyNDpYRKtVrlXGVytqQ2sXbRl2EX6vghCCHoPbjRmPppUgrJi1hbzqvYLAVMG0wfPZX9sL3Yzfit-w4BLk7OkC71D-sw==


Tbh, I am at a loss on how to proceed, both tree-wise and especially gear/gemming-wise. I have my sights on the Echo gem but it seems it drops in A3/Merciless.. Also, noticed several high lvl chars using 2 Arcs. Both Arcs fire as one? Or 2 separate activations needed?

I farmed extensively up to now and have some decent supplies in mats in case someone wants to trade with me, this is not a gimme freebies thread.

Thanks for the long read, any advice appreciated.

Last edited by NaineNoire on Nov 23, 2014, 10:25:44 AM
I am by no means a pro player, but I have been playing arc builds for the league that just ended, so here are some pointers that you may find helpful.

On gear:

your gear has low to no hp status, so you should get more hp and resistances on your gear. You can get dual resistance gear with mediocre hp for a rather cheap price (1 or 2 chaos), and then you can upgrade them further with masters. (note: a rare item can only have 6 mods max)

On passive tree:

you should decide on what kind of life your build will rely on (life or energy shield), because it seems you are getting a bit of everything, which is not easy to pull off unless you have really good gear. I highly suggest go life build since you just started the game, and that high end energy shield gears are hella expensive @@

On skill (arc):

Arc has a 50% damage effectiveness, which means if you have 100% increased spell damage (from passive tree or/and gear), arc will only take 50% of that. However, there are things that can bypass that problem, which is critical strikes, cast speed, and penetration. I suggest you building some of those in your tree and gear instead of just spell damage, which will better increase your arc damage. Also, it's not necessary to pick up alot of shock chance, because you will be casting alot, so the chances of them being shocked is quite easy, those extra points (the 5 points on the right side of the lightning damage circle) can be allocated for something more effective.

On gems links:

I assume you don't know about gem links, because of the way your put your gems in your gear. A linked socket allows the skill to be linked with support gems, increasing their effectiveness.

For your arc, use support gems like (most common/popular ones):
spell echo/faster casting/lightning penetration/critical strikes/life leech/added lightning damage

If you realize that survival is becoming a problem, you can have defensive setup such as:

"cast when damage taken" + "enduring cry" + "immortal call" <-- my favourite setup


you can also check out other arc builds, those guys have more in depth explanation on gear and concepts!

you can also use http://poe.trade to search for items for sale (and private message the players in game or leave comments)

and www.poebuilder.com to play around with the passive tree and how is your build has enough of what you want( hp, resistance, damage, etc)

An example of an arc build at level late-60s (this is not the most optimized build, because I left out some keystones)

https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAghDfsALjB6UsnEmydhEQWND1QZYFQgQHTLOus1XGg9usmDpY3YzZX-ASjRl-rxEPXyrr5GpDwFS86msXlSAtHxGWf8aio8HzSVHw1ZUuBx5d8g5IpJF-M4w2E54V5_Brc7NFfJeXcFKJ03DVYeJVSxa_JpVtGQj0U1JFnZrg6-64k836fIMRLfnogsco-ti9_gq3PkGHGmydrqcIFm_jajbpJKq2-vemjmTkIvJFOuGmV03j

P.S. hope it helps, and read more on skill mechanics and keystones will further your knowledge about how things work in this game :)


Edit:

Spell echo actually not too expensive to purchase,around 2 to 3 chaos only.

Some players use 2 arcs for different purposes: 1 for actual damage and 1 for applying curses with the "curse on hit" support gem
Last edited by j12funki on Nov 23, 2014, 8:30:41 PM
"
j12funki wrote:

Arc has a 50% damage effectiveness, which means if you have 100% increased spell damage (from passive tree or/and gear), arc will only take 50% of that.


That's not how it works. The damage effectiveness penalty only applies to support gems, as for example added lightning, not to any spell or elemental damage modifiers on gear/tree.

"
NaineNoire wrote:

Tbh, I am at a loss on how to proceed, both tree-wise and especially gear/gemming-wise. I have my sights on the Echo gem but it seems it drops in A3/Merciless.. Also, noticed several high lvl chars using 2 Arcs. Both Arcs fire as one? Or 2 separate activations needed?

I farmed extensively up to now and have some decent supplies in mats in case someone wants to trade with me, this is not a gimme freebies thread.

Thanks for the long read, any advice appreciated.


J12funki does present some good points (aside from the arc effectiveness question). I would just like to focus on some main mechanics you should be aware of (and following decisions based on this knowledge):

1. How to scale your Arc damage
Your base (per hit) Arc damage (value of which you can see when you hover of the gem) can be scaled (multiplied) by a multitude of ways:

Multiplier #0:
gem lvl
-The higher the gem lvl, the higher the damage. Arc gains 10% dmg per lvl.

Multiplier #1:
%spell dmg increase (since Arc is a spell), %elemental dmg increase (since lightning is an element), %lightning dmg increase (again, it's a lightning spell)
-These are all equivalent for your purposes and add together.

Multiplier #2:
cast speed
-As you can imagine, affects the speed with which you cast spells.

Multiplier #3:
crit chance x crit multiplier
-Every spell has a base critical strike chance (again, which you can see on the gem). That gets scaled by critical strike chance and critical strike chance for spells. Those too, again, add together. So if you had 100% increased crit chance, your chance to crit with Arc would be 10%.
-How much more damage than with normal hit you would do gets determined by critical strike multiplier. Base value is 150% - you do 1.5x your normal damage when you crit. Furthermore, any extra critical damage multiplier you get on the tree or gear is gonna be multiplied by 1.5. So if you get an extra 100% increased crit dmg, your crits will do 3 times the normal damage.

These are multipliers that affect your tooltip dps (what you can see if you mouse over your skill or in character screen when you select Arc. There are some others that apply in special occasions, but you don't have to worry about those yet. Finally, there are two more that won't affect your tooltip, but will greatly improve your damage nevertheless:

"Multiplier" #4
Lightning penetration
-You can lower enemies' resists. You can't get this stat on a tree (except for that %2 node you already took), and can't get it gear (although there are some uniques with this stat), but most commonly you will encounter this in the form of a Lightning Penetration support gem or when cursing enemies (curses like Elemental Weakness or Conductivity considerably lower mobs' resistances - not quite the same as penetration but similar enough for your purposes).

"Multiplier" #5
Shocked status ailment
-Any enemy that get's shocked will receive 50% more damage (doesn't work for the first hit that causes the shock, only for hits that get applied when the enemy is shocked). You can shock enemies when using a skill with a base shock chance - like Arc - or any time you crit with a lightning damage.

In addition to all the stats you can get on tree and gear, you, as you have probably figured out already, can also scale your main skill damage with linked support gems. More links = more support gems = more damage. Many support gems simply provide very large boosts to stats I have already mentioned, like:

Empower - Increases your main gem's lvl
Added Lightning Dmg - Provides a flat dmg boost to your base Arc per hit dmg
Faster Casting - Cast Speed
Increased Critical Dmg - Your critical strikes do more dmg
Lightning Penetration - You penetrate a % of enemies' resistance,

while some are more specialized, like:

Elemental Proliferation - If you shock an enemy, enemies in a specified radius close to him will also get shocked.

As a rule, you want to have as many support gems linked to your Arc as you can, but should also be careful about the supported gems' mana multiplier. Any gem you link to your main skill will multiply your Arc cast cost by the specified amount (1.3x for Added Light Dmg, for example).

(Then there are also auras, but they won't do much for you at the moment and there are only three that affect straight dmg of a caster - Haste, Herald of Thunder and Herald of Ice. If you wanna try them out, however, get also a Reduced Mana gem to link them with.)

Now, in your exact case, as you now know this, what should you focus on? In my opinion, you should forget about scaling crit chance/crit dmg for now (it doesn't become good until late game, requires expensive items to be optimal, at least a 5L to get the most out of, etc), and instead get: 1. Highest possible Spell/Ele/Light dmg on Tree and Gear; 2. Highest possible Cast Speed on Tree and Gear; 3. Have either a 4L, or a +2gems 3L (or if you have 5 chaos, buy Geofri's Crest, which is a great starting unique for Arc). With that I would use the following gem combination:

Arc+Faster Casting (Spell Echo when you can get it)+Lightning Pen (I see you are already lvling it - Put it in instead of Added Light if you can afford the increased mana cost, it does more damage at all lvls; however, Added Light Dmg gives you longer shock duration, which is based on the initial hit, so maybe experiment and see which feels better)+Elemental Proliferation (Until you replace it with Faster Casting)

Furthermore, I see you are already using Conductivity, good.

As for people using two Arcs, yes, you have to use each of those separately. The second Arc is probably linked to Ele Prolif and used to spread shock (and possibly apply a curse when linked to Curse on hit+"a curse" gems) in-before the main Arc hits. Not sure it's actually very good for clear speed at low lvls (or ever). You might give it a shot and have an amazing experience discovering all the new things! Who knows...


Alright, now:

2. How to go about your defences

... will have to be tackled by someone else (or me tomorrow). This post has become too long and I have to go to bed, hehe. Just quickly, decide whether your hp is gonna be life based or ES based (ES is dependent entirely on your gear - you get no ES per lvl), probably should go life; and what your damage mitigation is gonna be (Armor vs Evasion), and why you would want to explore some specialized, but extremely common and popular choices that go around that dichotomy (Arctic Armour, MoM, Coil).
Last edited by Cabesi on Nov 23, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
"
That's not how it works. The damage effectiveness penalty only applies to support gems, as for example added lightning, not to any spell or elemental damage modifiers on gear/tree.


Oh no, thanks for clearing that up :)
Thanks a lot for your insights both j12funki & Cabesi, it really helped a lot in better coming to grips with mechanics and setup.

Still a ton of questions, as - you guessed - I am new to this game. All my gear is self-found as I was unsure of pricing and quite clueless of the abbreviations people use on the game channels. And by 'substantial farming' I meant I have 1 Vaal, 2 Chaos, 16 Chromatic and 40-odd Transmutation and Alteration orbs. Fairly certain that classifies as dirt poor :)

I better understand now how support gems enhance the spell ones (Arc in my case). On my wand (which I managed to craft thanks to Ziggy's vid) I can drop the Storm Call for LPen. Then on though, I lack both the gems and the linked gear to make my Witch stronger.

I realise that my passive tree choices are not optimal but is the char salvageable? Or I need to start afresh?

Will be online tomorrow, if you´re not too bored of further advice.
You are welcome :)

I think ziggyd made a video a while back about how to stock up currency, you can check that out :D

Also, your passive tree is definitely still doable, I believe you can get up to 18 respec points from quests (6 points per difficulty), so you can use those to later reallocate your points when you want.

As for gems, you can check http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Quest_Rewards to see if the witch's quest path reward the gems you are looking for, or you can trade for them on trade chat (or poe.trade).

Like Cabesi said, you can start by figuring out what kind of build you want to go towards(HP vs ES/ armor vs evasion) and then you may have a better idea about which direction to go on the passive tree and what kind of keystones you wanna hit up.

feel free to give me a message if I am online, my ign: AnEvilPikachu
Your gear lacks armour - and this will be the #1 issue of dying, if not in cruel then merciless for sure. Melee mobs or uniques that do physical damage you must be aware of the most and do everything to avoid close range. Sadly many melees also run pretty fast and Arc has a very wide min/max dmg range, even in higher levels, so it's pretty possible, that you get bad luck hits in a row that all do just low damage and cannot kill the mobs before they reach you. Especially when Arc cannot chain, because there are no other mobs in range or left, it can become very dangerous.

Therefore I highly recommend to

1) use a Cast when Damage Taken setup, but not EC+IC like suggested above, but Molten Shell and Warlord's Mark. Why? Because as stated armour most likely will be the #1 issue and Molten Shell temporary grants a huge armour buff - luckily in situations when especially needed. Warlord's Mark on the other side is a curse, that gives Life- and Manaleech on hit, in combination with Arc a great possibility to get life back fast due to multiple hits in a short period of time. But I suggest to try out both setups to find out what suits you the most.

2) have at least one gem setup, that allows aggro-grabbing and donates you a few seconds without having the attention of the mobs. I tried different setups, be it a Decoy Totem, be it Spectres or Skeletons - the best results I got so far was with a Frost Wall Spell totem. If you don't already have a spell totem gem, in cruel you'll be rewarded with a few of them. As soon as you get one, find an item with at least a red and blue socket linked (more sockets are better of course, eg. a second blue one for Faster Casting). Always check the vendors in town, they often have fully linked items in their inventories, even 5L and 6L's are possible (though very rare). Buy a white item and use an orb of Alchemy on it to make it a rare one. The Frost Wall will ease many fights, especially in merciless and later in maps.

The setup could be like this:


Both the CwDt and aggro-grabbing setup will save you an incredible amount of flask charges (to have them ready when really needed) and ease physical damage spike situations (I'm thinking of jumping frogs, dropping bears, groups of archers, Porcupines, Devourers, Brutus and Kole) and all other fights too.

Some general hints:
- I also played a few other characters until I reached lvl 75 with my Arc Witch. With the others I also found useful uniques, currencies, skill gems and other items that made it much easier to level the main character.
- You do not need to level all gems to 20. Eg. Clarity reserves quite much mana, but it's very likely that also a lower level gem provides enough mana regeneration. My Witch has a 5L Arc setup but only a level 8 Clarity gem, that still is sufficient. Then you can use the other mana for an additional Aura, a Herald or another buff like Tempest Shield or all of them and still have enough left to cast. When a gem is ready to level up but you don't want to do so, right click it on your UI to hide it (it then shows up in your inventory at the bottom of the slots).
- When you check the vendors always buy three linked red, blue, green socketed items for an orb of transmutation and immediately sell them back for a chromatic orb (the sockets must be linked though).
- Always carry some orbs of transmutation and augmentation with you to boost white strongboxes. You also can use alterations to vary the mods or orbs of alchemy to make them rare ones.
- If you like party play and use the Frost Wall totem, make sure to ideally play with only casters too, because the Frost Wall will block melees (except they can leap over it), projectiles and minions.

If you're interested, here's my current skill tree:

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAuMC_gQHBUIHYwelCPQNjRBYES0VUBZvGmwbJRzcHwIfxyL0JKoo-it4LJwtRy2LMjQ1kjbpPydBh0GWRXxFnUmySshLrk99UEJRYFNSVUtVxlcrXyph4mSEakNsC20Zbqp2EXyDfll-4n_GgFaCEILHg9uHZYw2lQSXl5rgna6nCK-btDi18rc-uJO86r2CwFTLvc360PXYvdlb2t3esN-E34rfsONq5RnnC-kC6-Tr7vO--ej60vv1_gr-sw==
Cheers for your input too Salumba, as I was saying last night to j12funki I am so positively inundated with helpful info that I need to chart a course and stick to it :)

Now, given that:

- I am still grappling with concepts that to you may seem silly such as to use alteration or transmutation orbs on boxes (??) or the various acronyms and abbreviations people use in trade chat etc etc

- we've established my char is still a go and doesn't need to re-roll (was afraid that Eldritch Battery ruined the life-orientated build)

- I have decided to go the most sensible path without too demanding gear aka the life route.

- j12funki was kind enough to pass over items/gems that immediately gave me visible results. Links below



I have 8 refund points and 4 saved skill-up ones. I am thinking of dropping the entire right side of shocks and a bit of lightning damage on the northern-most node and picking the early faster cast boosts near the core.

Then on, should I aim for the ES nodes to the left or wherever else I may find them? Towards that side I can also pick up the Str and Dex boosts needed for equipping more advanced gear.

After that I could aim for the Purity of Flesh node. Unsure whether I should pick shield block points. Also in doubt of Aura effects and less mana reserved.

At any rate, I will deffo head towards the Athleticism and Elementalist nodes and any nearby life/resists available.

Crit will be mostly ignored as I was advised it's hard to incorporate on a low budget (mine is).

Forgot to link the gem-related additions, here goes:



Tree remains as such:

Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMABAcI9BBYEQ8fAh_HK3gsnC19LYsyNDpYRKtVrlXGVytqQ2sXbRl2EX6vghCCHoPbjRmPppUgrJi1hbzqvYLAVMG0wfPZX9sL3Yzfit-w4BLk7OkC71D-sw==


Thx for the attention people!

Keeping you updated on my progress, taken in most of the advice kindly offered here above and happy to report the developing passives tree plus the augmented gear makes my leveling progression a fun ride!

Here's links to my revamped tree and equipment:



Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAuMEBwelCPQQWBEPFVAWbxpsHwIfxySqKU8reCycLYsyNDbFNuk6WEbXSbJVxlcrXcZgbWpDaxdtGXYRfq-CEIIegpuD240ZlSCdrqcIrJi1BLzqvYLAVMHz2CTZX9rd2wvdjN3z34rfsOAS4XPjauQi5OzpAu0g_rM=


Now, I am looking at gear upgrades and have been advised to go for Geofri's Crest and the Morrowinds. Although I appreciate that Geofri's sports the much valued +1 to gem levels, unless it's a 4L, how can it be an upgrade over my current helm?

As you can see, my wand has my main Arc damage components, the helm takes care of spreading 2 curses (still looking for Elemental Weakness), the shield has my emergency defence mechanism (thx again for that helpful insight, has saved my ass more times than I care to admit) and the chest is my fast(ish) teleport trick. Rest is still work in progress.

Please enlighten!

Why do you think making an item 4L is hard? At the most, it's 10 Jewelers and 5 Fuse with Vorici. On Average, it's even less.
[3.22] 💀The Grim Reaper💀 - Hexblast Poison Mines Assassin
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[3.22] ❄️⚡CantripN's Hadoken! - Lightning Conduit / Crackling Lance / Arc Permafreeze⚡❄️
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