Hey uh armor sucks

Combining Armour and Evasion is pretty good. Unfortunately Block and Spell Block make classic defenses redundant because there's no reason to only invest into defense against attacks when you can get defense against attacks and spells at the same time.

Also, you have to invest into Armour for it to be good. Same goes for Evasion, Block and any other type of defense. A lot of people do not investing into it and then call it bad.
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RagnarokChu wrote:
Considering you can get perma immortal call I don't see why you need armor anyway.
Because perma ICall shouldn't be a thing?

Armour has sucked for a long time.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
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Autocthon wrote:
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RagnarokChu wrote:
Considering you can get perma immortal call I don't see why you need armor anyway.
Because perma ICall shouldn't be a thing?

Armour has sucked for a long time.

I thought I didn't need to state the obvious but perma immortal call makes armor pointless because you immune to physical damage, defeating the purpose of having armor.

Whenever or not it should be a thing is up to people and GGG, because armor is completely useless when you can completely ignore it. If I can become 100% immune to fire damage there would be no point in fire resist either.
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RagnarokChu wrote:
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Autocthon wrote:
"
RagnarokChu wrote:
Considering you can get perma immortal call I don't see why you need armor anyway.
Because perma ICall shouldn't be a thing?

Armour has sucked for a long time.

I thought I didn't need to state the obvious but perma immortal call makes armor pointless because you immune to physical damage, defeating the purpose of having armor.

Whenever or not it should be a thing is up to people and GGG, because armor is completely useless when you can completely ignore it. If I can become 100% immune to fire damage there would be no point in fire resist either.
Actually you can. There's even a build devoted to fire immunity.

Just saying.

And of course there's a theoretical "Vaal ICall Build", but that requires making some concessions and wouldn't function in certain situations.

My point was that armor has sucked and has sucked whether or not ICall existed for a long time now.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
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Autocthon wrote:

My point was that armor has sucked and has sucked whether or not ICall existed for a long time now.


If you have below 10k armor yes

try getting around 15k-20k armor. You will see the difference. Against 80% of phisical mobs you're immortal

Pair armor with 40% block and 3 endurance charges, maybe 4-5% life regene and voilà, you have a tanky fucker

Source: me and my level 90 alive invasion marauder. from vanilla invasion to nerfed invasion :)

Now on a more serious note, armor alone it's not sufficent. You need other forms of mitigation as someone else said. usually for melee block and life regene are the best.
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Mahesys wrote:
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Autocthon wrote:

My point was that armor has sucked and has sucked whether or not ICall existed for a long time now.


If you have below 10k armor yes

try getting around 15k-20k armor. You will see the difference. Against 80% of phisical mobs you're immortal

Pair armor with 40% block and 3 endurance charges, maybe 4-5% life regene and voilà, you have a tanky fucker

Source: me and my level 90 alive invasion marauder. from vanilla invasion to nerfed invasion :)

Now on a more serious note, armor alone it's not sufficent. You need other forms of mitigation as someone else said. usually for melee block and life regene are the best.
The difference between a build with 20k armour + 75% block and a build with 75% block is laughable.

And. well, trivializing 80% of enemies (who were already near-trivial) doesn't matter when you're doing barely anything to the enemies that are actually threatening.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
aye block or gtfo
The reason IC "replaces" AR is because neither protect against really big hits (if CWDT) or requires ~str tree investment otherwise (if hard-cast). IC does not outright replace AR though, because a AR can protect against really big hits with sufficient investment, and hard-cast takes time (virtually no good str-accessible ICS), has a short duration without sufficient investment, and can be interrupted (by said really big hits).

Lightning coil protects against these big hits, as does AA/MoM.

None of the above pair well with AR; they pair much better with avoidance defenses--EV, block, and dodge. Any combination of these paired with any combination of IC, Lightning Coil, and/or AA/MoM, will be significantly better than anything one can do with armour.

These defenses are weak to spells (excepting AA/MoM), as is AR. Weakness towards spells is mostly irrelevant because of resistances and max resistances, besides cases of excessive overtuning and physical spells versus EV.

AR has lost its niche, not because it was replaced, but because it is not competitive and because GGG really lost the plot with defenses each having their own unique strengths and weaknesses.

IMHO, there's not much that can be done about that last point, so the best place for AR in the current meta is "some" protection versus all non-chaos damage (or, maybe even chaos? I don't know). It fits with the old AR vs EV paradigm, where the latter offers significant protection versus some damage. I also think the overall health of the game would improve significantly if elemental/spell damage were tuned against the sum effect of both your resistances and your AR.

(Slight tangent) The skill tree is a web; it is all connected, and this reflects the dynamics and relationships between all other mechanics and concepts otherwise. People tend to comment on things as if they exist in a vacuum. They don't. How this would affect the game beyond just "AR sux":

One part remedy for balancing resistances: AR has built in diminishing returns, and so if it replaced ~33 to 50% of the effect of your current resists, then elemental/spell damage would not have to be overtuned to compensate for max and +max resists.
Related consequences:
~RF would be much more difficult to build for (i.e., not be "free" for some builds) if not built for AR. This would seem to be a straight up buff for pure life RF burninating builds.
~Potentially the same for Blood Rage.
~Presumably, overtuned elemental/spell damage for pure EV / pure ES builds would hurt less, and otherwise meaningless no damage trash mobs (currently, this extends to most blue mobs and even some rares) would become more meaningful.

One part remedy for 2H woes: AR has been built into weapon nodes on the skill tree unlike anything has been done for EV or ES. This could mean a lot for 2H weapon builds if AR actually had a niche and identity that did something.
Related consequences:
~If balanced such that some AR is sufficient, then 2H builds focused on pure AR nodes as well as AR/weapon hybrid clusters would gain a significant amount of tankiness.
~Otherwise, damage focused str builds would be "sufficient" with AR from hybrid clusters.

Fake Edit:
I don't know how the fuck they did it, but Apple actually succeeded in making autocorrect even more frustrating. Absolutely fuck editing this post any further; if there are still words replaced with random nonsense, complain to Apple, not me ^-^
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Actually you can. There's even a build devoted to fire immunity.

Just saying.

And of course there's a theoretical "Vaal ICall Build", but that requires making some concessions and wouldn't function in certain situations.

My point was that armor has sucked and has sucked whether or not ICall existed for a long time now.


Okay tell me how much armor do you need to be immune to physical damage and how much fire resist you need for fire immunity ~.~

Also people already pointed out that armor never changed and was considered the most op thing or the 'meta" along with IR + grace aura for the longest time forever.

Only thing that changed is new skill tree + new additions to the game which made armor go to the back burner. Perma immortal call removes you needing to worry about physical damage period, along with changes to evasion and stacking armor being much harder now you just skip it.
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RagnarokChu wrote:

Only thing that changed is new skill tree + new additions to the game which made armor go to the back burner. Perma immortal call removes you needing to worry about physical damage period, along with changes to evasion and stacking armor being much harder now you just skip it.

"Perma IC" is around for a long time now.
Long enough to overlap with the "Armor is the way to go" meta.

Also Evasion wasn't buffed, Armor wasn't nerfed.

The main difference is:
Players now have easier access to high-level content and Atziri was added, and Armor isn't exactly what players are looking for to beat this type of content.

3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519

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