All weapons should have their own additional damage multiplier based on their base speed

It's been said before, even i have said it before, but just right now it hit me just how simple it really is.

All weapons should have a multiplier associated with them, that multiplier then affects all other sources of damage that applies to that weapon, and i will show you how it could be done most easily.

That is effectively the simplest and best way to stop the massive attack speed bias that exists in the game.

Before any other balance changes, this overall change should be faciliated as the basic foundation, then following that, passive nodes, aura values and whatever else should be adjusted. If you do not get the foundation right, in order to have balance(which you do not and never will have anyway with current method), you will have to adjust numbers every time the game changes, new things like heralds get introduced etc.


Example:

For example lets say a fast weapon has a 0.8 multiplier

100-200 weapon damage is added from other sources than the weapon itself,
then it would only get added 80-160 weapon damage.

50% physical damage added as cold damage from hatred aura,
then it would only get 40% cold damage added.


The simplest implementation:

The way i believe it should be done, the most logical and simplest way is to find out what the average base attacks per second is for all weapons. I summed it all up and divided and i got 1.326 attacks per second, based on the website weapon type speeds. I only counted once so the number is roughly right. The way it should be done is then:

1.326 / (base weapon weapon speeed) = multiplier

So,
for a 1.1 aps weapon the multiplier would be 1.205
for a 1.5 aps weapon the multiplier would be 0.884

If you ask me, this must be a foundation in the game. It will effectively eliminate one of the two endgame weapon scaling problems, base weapon speeds and crit, leaving only crit discrepancies.

For crit, i suggest you reevaluate base crit chances, reducing crit chances on weapons rather than increasing, reducing base weapon damage on high crit weapons, how much crit and increased damage is available in the tree for various weapon types, as well as making crit additive to the base 150% rather than multiplicative.

The reason i think weapon crit chances should be reduced is that you can reach 95% crit chance, it has an affix that adds an up to 1.38 overall multiplier, which sets it apart from spells and breaks the game. Also, while i may seem like a redundant argument, the flavour of crit is lost when you pretty much perma crit, it's the good old constantly content vs ups and downs argument. Also, do i need to mention cast on crit builds, both breaking the game you balanced for years and causing massive lags ruining party play getting people killed due other players skills.

The problem with games like this is that they almost require you to invest into crit, always demand increased attack speed, and using speed over raw damage. One of the biggest factors being stun. If you attack/cast slowly, you'll do so little damage that you are far less effective than any other build that is much faster.

We don't need to nerf attack speed and crit. We need to buff non-crit and slow weapons and spells to make them worthwhile.

The whole reason why fast rate abilities are favored is because of clear speed. Look at CoC. It can clear a screen in a second. No melee ability currently has that capability, even with Melee Splash. Even if you nerf crit chance from 95% to about 45%, it won't change the clear speed for either build.

Basically what you are saying is the mental equivalent of:

We need to base multiplier around the max attack speed weapon so its benefits 1.0 and everything else gains more.

That line of reasoning is pure power creep, and making systems less illogical so satisfy some illogical fear of nerfing things.

Things just need to be done right baseline, and you can adjust numbers afterwards, the core is the most important thing to have right.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Basically what you are saying is the mental equivalent of:

We need to base multiplier around the max attack speed weapon so its benefits 1.0 and everything else gains more.

That line of reasoning is pure power creep, and making systems less illogical so satisfy some illogical fear of nerfing things.

Things just need to be done right baseline, and you can adjust numbers afterwards, the core is the most important thing to have right.

No, what I'm saying is that something needs to be done specifically to two-handed weapons, non-crit, and self-casters.

Look at what CoC does. It takes advantage of a shield and can get max block, without the block flask. No two-hander can do that.

Two-handers have just about no reason besides their six-link capability. They need more than that.

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Natharias wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

Basically what you are saying is the mental equivalent of:

We need to base multiplier around the max attack speed weapon so its benefits 1.0 and everything else gains more.

That line of reasoning is pure power creep, and making systems less illogical so satisfy some illogical fear of nerfing things.

Things just need to be done right baseline, and you can adjust numbers afterwards, the core is the most important thing to have right.

No, what I'm saying is that something needs to be done specifically to two-handed weapons, non-crit, and self-casters.

Look at what CoC does. It takes advantage of a shield and can get max block, without the block flask. No two-hander can do that.

Two-handers have just about no reason besides their six-link capability. They need more than that.

i sort of like his idea, may be just increace 2h multiplier and leave the rest alone but is a good idea after all.

another option is to increace the atributes specialy the flat ones 2h can get, another one could be to give all 2h a second inate: "gems in this item have 5-10% increased quality", that will sure make 2h a bit more viable, specialy to casters and summoners that leaving aside some unques they currently have no incentive to go 2h.

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caboom wrote:

i sort of like his idea, may be just increace 2h multiplier and leave the rest alone but is a good idea after all.

another option is to increace the atributes specialy the flat ones 2h can get, another one could be to give all 2h a second inate: "gems in this item have 5-10% increased quality", that will sure make 2h a bit more viable, specialy to casters and summoners that leaving aside some unques they currently have no incentive to go 2h.

Everything about this game comes down to clear speed. The absolute fastest being Cast on Crit, and the slowest being just about any melee build out there.

We don't need just damage modifiers, we need damage application changes. Right now melee cannot ever compare to any non-melee build, except for DPS. But DPS is only a fraction of clear speed.

So this one modifier isn't going to be enough.

and your point is? god im so tired of listening to you. It's like, the world is lost so we should stop improving, that's the kind of arguments u try coz u want win me. But you cant' you didn't even understand what i told you. Bye.

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Crackmonster wrote:

and your point is? god im so tired of listening to you. It's like, the world is lost so we should stop improving, that's the kind of arguments u try coz u want win me. But you cant' you didn't even understand what i told you. Bye.

Hmm. I wonder which is harder to understand and work with. Either what you posted, or what I've been posting.

All you want to do is change the damage dealt with weapons with a modifier. This won't change the rate of the application, which is the real problem.

I never said we should stop improving. So don't try to claim that is what I want or said.