2h - Keystone - Parry

Keystone - Parry
- 35% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon (similar to dodge or block)
- Cannot wield a 6L weapon while wielding a 6L body armor

What's the negative? Well, being unable to use a shield while wielding a 2h weapon is actually a built in pretty large negative; and here we're also removing the double 6L possibility.

We're allowing either a 6L weapon or a 6L armor, but not both. If you have a 6L armor you'd need a 5L weapon or less. I feel this offers some pretty fair give and take. The lack of shield will affect everyone, the lack of a double 6L is less of an issue for most.

Also notice that shields can block spells in many builds, while we're doing only attacks here, so there is certainly some disadvantages kept because this is only attacks.

"

Keystone - Parry
- 35% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon (similar to dodge or block)
- Cannot wield a 6L weapon while wielding a 6L body armor

What's the negative? Well, being unable to use a shield while wielding a 2h weapon is actually a built in pretty large negative; and here we're also removing the double 6L possibility.

We're allowing either a 6L weapon or a 6L armor, but not both. If you have a 6L armor you'd need a 5L weapon or less. I feel this offers some pretty fair give and take. The lack of shield will affect everyone, the lack of a double 6L is less of an issue for most.

Also notice that shields can block spells in many builds, while we're doing only attacks here, so there is certainly some disadvantages kept because this is only attacks.

Stopped reading at the bolded part.

The whole point of a two-handed weapon is the possibility of a second six-link. If you take that away, you take all logical reasoning for using a two-handed weapon.

So unless everything other than two-handed weapons are nerfed so much that the six-link isn't the main advantage, this shouldn't be used as is.

"

Keystone - Parry
- 35% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon (similar to dodge or block)
- Cannot wield a 6L weapon while wielding a 6L body armor

What's the negative? Well, being unable to use a shield while wielding a 2h weapon is actually a built in pretty large negative; and here we're also removing the double 6L possibility.

We're allowing either a 6L weapon or a 6L armor, but not both. If you have a 6L armor you'd need a 5L weapon or less. I feel this offers some pretty fair give and take. The lack of shield will affect everyone, the lack of a double 6L is less of an issue for most.

Also notice that shields can block spells in many builds, while we're doing only attacks here, so there is certainly some disadvantages kept because this is only attacks.

I like this idea but I can't imagine GGG ever mentioning a "6 link" in a keystone or anywhere in their passive tree. My suggestion would be to try to mirror what is already done with the Acrobatics area.

- 30% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon, followed by 3% additional chance to parry attacks, 4% additional, 3% additional, then 30% chance to parry spell damage.

Then the negative:
- 50% less accuracy, evasion, and dodge

The negative aspect actually makes sense because when you're focused on parrying attacks (and spells), you're not going to be as efficient in moving your body to evade/dodge attacks and countering with your attacks.

In terms of the game, it rewards people who go 2h melee builds with Resolute Technique and stack armor by not penalizing them and adding a much needed defensive buff. Also, this would somewhat hurt builds that use the grace aura and grab iron reflexes to stack armor, not to mention that using up 5 skill points instead of 1 to ultimately have spell parry is somewhat of a penalty as well.

I think to make it really interesting, GGG can add more 2h melee crit nodes between marauder/templar starting areas and put this keystone in the same area. This way, you either have to choose high crit 2h melee build that does significantly more damage at the sacrifice of not being able to take this keystone (or take it and foolishly suffer the 50% less accuracy penalty).

staff sort of does that, olso as much as i would like to see 2h buffed, turning them into pseudo 1h + shield with a bit more base damage but a bit less block does not look right.
10% damage reduction or 10% avoid seem more reasonable if you want to give them defensive atributes.

did read something interesting this morning about giving them a higher damage multiplier.

"

SliMjiM811 wrote:

- 30% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon, followed by 3% additional chance to parry attacks, 4% additional, 3% additional, then 30% chance to parry spell damage.

Then the negative:
- 50% less accuracy, evasion, and dodge

The negative aspect actually makes sense because when you're focused on parrying attacks (and spells), you're not going to be as efficient in moving your body to evade/dodge attacks and countering with your attacks.

how about a counter attack keystone?
35-40% to deflected attack (incoming damage does 50% less damage to you)
when an attack is deflected counterattack doing "x"% damage
50% less acuracy and evasion (this 2 are already huge drawbacks, less dodge will just kill it)

add a few extra 4% increased chance to deflect and it will be golden.

"

caboom wrote:

staff sort of does that, olso as much as i would like to see 2h buffed, turning them into pseudo 1h + shield with a bit more base damage but a bit less block does not look right.
10% damage reduction or 10% avoid seem more reasonable if you want to give them defensive atributes.

did read something interesting this morning about giving them a higher damage multiplier.


how about a counter attack keystone?
35-40% to deflected physical attack (incoming damage does 50% less damage to you)
when an attack is deflected counterattack doing "x"% damage
50% less acuracy and evasion (this 2 are already huge drawbacks, less dodge will just kill it)

add a few extra 4% increased chance to deflect and it will be golden.

Hmm, good idea with the counter attack keystone. I realize now that with my suggestion, parry would stack with staff block and allow staff users to reach max 75% block quite easily (not to mention max spell block with stone of lazhwar and rainbow strides), making it OP. My intention was to add an "absolute" defensive mechanic to 2h melee builds, sort of like block and dodge, since armor becomes garbage with high damaging hits and 2h melee builds only have endurance charges for the guaranteed damage mitigation.

So in order to not confuse staff block and parry being in same category, the counter attack suggestion seems like a solid one, working as a totally separate mechanic that can only stack with additional passives or newly introduced uniques.

My only addition to your suggestion would be to include deflecting spells, because currently there are absolutely zero ways to mitigate spell damage for 2h melee users (neither endurance charges nor lightning coil help). If dodge gets phase acrobatics and block gets spell block, it's only fair that deflecting phys attacks also allows for deflecting spells.

"

SliMjiM811 wrote:

Hmm, good idea with the counter attack keystone. I realize now that with my suggestion, parry would stack with staff block and allow staff users to reach max 75% block quite easily (not to mention max spell block with stone of lazhwar and rainbow strides), making it OP. My intention was to add an "absolute" defensive mechanic to 2h melee builds, sort of like block and dodge, since armor becomes garbage with high damaging hits and 2h melee builds only have endurance charges for the guaranteed damage mitigation.

So in order to not confuse staff block and parry being in same category, the counter attack suggestion seems like a solid one, working as a totally separate mechanic that can only stack with additional passives or newly introduced uniques.

My only addition to your suggestion would be to include deflecting spells, because currently there are absolutely zero ways to mitigate spell damage for 2h melee users (neither endurance charges nor lightning coil help). If dodge gets phase acrobatics and block gets spell block, it's only fair that deflecting phys attacks also allows for deflecting spells.

just realise i misswrite it, i mean attacks not phys attacks, that would include elemental attacks.

i guess it could deflect spells too, same chance to deflect but with lower efficiency, say 25-30% damage reduction oposed to 50% of attacks.

olso note that deflect has a double bonus, reducing incoming attacks by half will greatly increace armor effectivness (liner reduction) vs phys damage

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caboom wrote:

just realise i misswrite it, i mean attacks not phys attacks, that would include elemental attacks.

i guess it could deflect spells too, same chance to deflect but with lower efficiency, say 25-30% damage reduction oposed to 50% of attacks.

olso note that deflect has a double bonus, reducing incoming attacks by half will greatly increace armor effectivness (liner reduction) vs phys damage

True in some cases, but what most ppl are concerned with are end game maps, which means armor will still be garbage vs big powerful crits

"

caboom wrote:

staff sort of does that, olso as much as i would like to see 2h buffed, turning them into pseudo 1h + shield with a bit more base damage but a bit less block does not look right.
10% damage reduction or 10% avoid seem more reasonable if you want to give them defensive atributes.

did read something interesting this morning about giving them a higher damage multiplier.

"

SliMjiM811 wrote:

- 30% chance to parry attacks when wielding a 2h melee weapon, followed by 3% additional chance to parry attacks, 4% additional, 3% additional, then 30% chance to parry spell damage.

Then the negative:
- 50% less accuracy, evasion, and dodge

The negative aspect actually makes sense because when you're focused on parrying attacks (and spells), you're not going to be as efficient in moving your body to evade/dodge attacks and countering with your attacks.

how about a counter attack keystone?
35-40% to deflected attack (incoming damage does 50% less damage to you)
when an attack is deflected counterattack doing "x"% damage
50% less acuracy and evasion (this 2 are already huge drawbacks, less dodge will just kill it)

add a few extra 4% increased chance to deflect and it will be golden.

The counter attack would be way too strong in pvp, i mean WAY TOO STRONG

"

"

caboom wrote:

how about a counter attack keystone?
35-40% to deflected attack (incoming damage does 50% less damage to you)
when an attack is deflected counterattack doing "x"% damage
50% less acuracy and evasion (this 2 are already huge drawbacks, less dodge will just kill it)

add a few extra 4% increased chance to deflect and it will be golden.

The counter attack would be way too strong in pvp, i mean WAY TOO STRONG

If the counter attack suggestion is too strong, then I would still stick with the parry keystone idea, but make it so that it does not stack with staff block. The important thing is to find a way to implement some sort of reliable defense for 2h melee users.

At the very least, other 2h melee weapons should receive block chance, like staves, but maybe staves can get more crit nodes to differentiate it clearly from the other 2h melee weapons, which tend to do more damage than staves (via more available damage passives). Also, there should be block nodes for 2h melee weapons in general sprinkled throughout the tree, not just ones for staves.