CWDT-EC-IC is MaNdAtOrY for leveling builds that don't leech or get stunned past 92/93

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I'm still one of the few who would rather manually cast it for a significantly longer duration.

Self-casting IC doesnt mean it's fine, especially when Spell Echo was implemented.

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mephisto_n wrote:

I'm wondering why they don't straight integrate cwdt-IC setup in the core mechanic of poe to save everyone a 4 link. Like you only take physical damage in 4 second intervals. lol. Lazy design.

I believe GGG did not forsee the impact that the Cast When Damage Taken and Immortal Call combo would have. I do think it's a darn shame that my goddamn boots always seem to have the same four gems in them, on every single character I make. Those four gems being, CWDT, Enduring Cry, Immortal Call, Increased Duration.


What if we could have those 4 slots for an awesome Vaal skill combination. For example, my buddy xxIceman told me about an idea he had of using a Vaal Fireball + Spell Echo + GMP + Fire pen. That sounds awesome to me!

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Daresso wrote:

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mephisto_n wrote:

I'm wondering why they don't straight integrate cwdt-IC setup in the core mechanic of poe to save everyone a 4 link. Like you only take physical damage in 4 second intervals. lol. Lazy design.

I believe GGG did not forsee the impact that the Cast When Damage Taken and Immortal Call combo would have. I do think it's a darn shame that my goddamn boots always seem to have the same four gems in them, on every single character I make. Those four gems being, CWDT, Enduring Cry, Immortal Call, Increased Duration.


What if we could have those 4 slots for an awesome Vaal skill combination. For example, my buddy xxIceman told me about an idea he had of using a Vaal Fireball + Spell Echo + GMP + Fire pen. That sounds awesome to me!

The Immortal Call is the problem itself. It's too good, too simple way to bypass physical damage. Why care about armour, when you can be immune to physical?

Try CWDT without Immortal Call, and you find it a mere little help to survivability, no more.
On other hand, Immortal Call can provide permanent physical immunity without CWDT.

It was different, when it was self cast only. The successful usage was completely dependent on player's reactions and clear look over the current situation in fights.
It was never considered OP, take a look in the past. Not a single complaint.
CWDT made it op and also easy to work around it.

In general, auto-triggered gems were a terrible fail, considering balance. Dunno why they were implemented and who brought this terrible concept to life.
GGG were warned about the consequences straight after the flash of stupidity hit the servers.
But it appear they don't care much, nor are able to confess their own mistakes, or fix them.

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torturo wrote:

It was different, when it was self cast only. The successful usage was completely dependent on player's reactions and clear look over the current situation in fights.
It was never considered OP, take a look in the past. Not a single complaint.
CWDT made it op and also easy to work around it.

Agreed, "OP in the hands of a decent player" and "OP in general" are different things.

its not really the IC itself that is the problem.
well, its part of 'a' problem but its not the whole thing

the main problem is accessibility of CWDT+IC+EC setup.
it doesnt serve as "THE" defense, it serves as a complement as such.

its extremely easy to setup, no real investment needed, and it gives a ton of return

and someone who invests in endurance charges and has a long duration of IC isnt really benefiting from IC as much as someone who invests in crit and just uses the skill with 3 default charges and/or CWDT

Solution:

you push the IC mechanics out by gating most of IC duration behind endurance charge nodes, and suddenly you balance it out.
now you need to invest in endurance charges and endurance charge DURATION nodes.

you make EC+IC a real defense that you need to invest in (with fucking lightning coil the last OP form of defense not requiring real investment), and buff the mara/duelist side of the tree simultaneously.

oh and remove 'base' duration, by tying duration completely to charges. no more free IC for you. NEXT !

I find it amusing people get upset that's something so silly. btw IC has been in the game for awhile now with qarl like not even remotely mentioning it for years now, Obviously It's in the right state.

But hey your welcome to be upset over a skill *smirk

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I find it amusing people get upset that's something so silly. btw IC has been in the game for awhile now with qarl like not even remotely mentioning it for years now, Obviously It's in the right state.

But hey your welcome to be upset over a skill *smirk

I think its a relatively minor gripe, but when everyone and their mom uses CWDT with EC and IC it kinda makes it a necessity more so than a choice.


imo when a question becomes 'where do I put my 4L cwdt setup' and not 'what defense should I go with' or 'what utility skills I should use', the benefit of this setup is way too good.

but, its just my 2 cents. I like IC as a skill and I like using my toon who has 7 ECs.

The problem isn't that IC is op, the problem is that the amount of investment into armor and endurance charges required to match it is astronomical. Leapers, devourer packs, fracturing cockatrice... you could have 7000 health and 15,000 armor and enough of that would still kill you. You could be fully invested into defending against those damage sources and still not have adequate mitigation. But IC can make someone with 0 armor safe from those threats. That's not fair to people who have built around armor.

This makes it more rewarding to use cwdt/ic/ec/id than to try to get the same mitigation factor through your actual build. That shouldn't be the case. Armor/hp stacking should blow ic out of the water, but it doesn't, because the reward for all that investment is too low. So why make that investment, when it already does nothing against spell damage, when you could invest in block, dodge or evade instead, add CWDT, and get more benefit than armor AND another defense, that can be applied to spells to with the right uniques?

It is a universally smarter option, which means it's part of every build. This is what stale meta is made of. But it's telling that even people heavily invested in armor benefit greatly from it- they shouldn't need it.

I think any nerf to IC/CWDT due to its lack of requiring investment, should come with a commensurate buff to armor/endurance charges to reward that investment more, and a nerf to otherwise trash mobs that through their mechanics can turn into sources of enormous, near-instant alpha strike damage on par with monsters five times their hit dice.

TL;DR nerf IC, buff armor, stop giving trash white mobs nuclear weapons.