Display Zombie DPS

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Ahzmund wrote:

I know you can do it just like other spells.

No, we can't. Other spells DPS is based on your stats, which you have easy access to. Zombie's DPS is based on the Zombie's stats, which you do not, because they're an entirely separate object.

This is planned for the long term but requires substantial amounts of work and refactoring the entire character screen system.

Would be really nice to see recorded DPS over a period of time, such as 15 minutes. For example, zombies might deal x damage, but they will deal more with added auras and buffs, and yes, things like run speed might actually increase real damage over a period of time.

This way you could compare different combinations of what you have been doing, such as rotating an item or skill within the mix.

Good idea.

I was about to suggest a very similar idea.

Could we have a DPS Meter so we can see our own DPS as a percentage compared to other players' DPS in our party?

For instance, let's assume I am in a party with Bob and Bill. Let's say I'm doing about 100K dps give or take, Bob is doing about 80K dps, and Bill is doing about 30K dps.

The meter would just simply add the damage we do over time, and give us a percent of how much damage we've done so far compared to everyone else. so in this instance, it would read:

Me: 100%
Bob: 80%
Bill: 30%

This would actually be more interesting information to provide than some arbitrary number that may or may not be correct for zombie dps. I want to see how much damage I'm doing compared to others.

A great feature would be to allow players to reset the meter any time, like before a boss fight. No difficult equations necessary. Just add the total raw damage each player in a party does and compare those values.

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Ahzmund wrote:

Good idea.

I was about to suggest a very similar idea.

Could we have a DPS Meter so we can see our own DPS as a percentage compared to other players' DPS in our party?

For instance, let's assume I am in a party with Bob and Bill. Let's say I'm doing about 100K dps give or take, Bob is doing about 80K dps, and Bill is doing about 30K dps.

The meter would just simply add the damage we do over time, and give us a percent of how much damage we've done so far compared to everyone else. so in this instance, it would read:

Me: 100%
Bob: 80%
Bill: 30%

This would actually be more interesting information to provide than some arbitrary number that may or may not be correct for zombie dps. I want to see how much damage I'm doing compared to others.

A great feature would be to allow players to reset the meter any time, like before a boss fight. No difficult equations necessary. Just add the total raw damage each player in a party does and compare those values.

There is one flaw: it would be not dps meter but damage meter (i can have over 9000 gazillion dps anr party members can run with measly 2k dps but if i will just walk with party then this meter will show 0 for me). And anyway, how is this relevant to displaying tooltip zombie/skeleton damage?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Ahzmund wrote:

I know you can do it just like other spells.

No, we can't. Other spells DPS is based on your stats, which you have easy access to. Zombie's DPS is based on the Zombie's stats, which you do not, because they're an entirely separate object.

This is planned for the long term but requires substantial amounts of work and refactoring the entire character screen system.

I don't see how us not having access to the information warrants us not having it. The entity has information, and can easily be reflected elsewhere.

All that needs be done is something similar to what one would do in Outlook, or any other similar programs. I believe the command is "=a1" or so. It simply displays what is shown in another box. In this case, we'd just show the minion's final attributes.

This can easily be done when displaying the minion's base attributes, as it is summoned. It shouldn't reflect things like auras since those can be lost at any point in time.

My point with the DPS meter was to provide a compromise, since they seem to be firm in their intentions. Yes, it's more of a "damage meter," but in reality, aren't you more concerned with your damage output compared to other party members? And besides, if your other party members do know their dps, then the damage member idea actually can generalize your own DPS with more than just your zombies. Are you saying that this wouldn't be a good idea?

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Natharias wrote:

I don't see how us not having access to the information warrants us not having it. The entity has information, and can easily be reflected elsewhere.

All that needs be done is something similar to what one would do in Outlook, or any other similar programs. I believe the command is "=a1" or so. It simply displays what is shown in another box. In this case, we'd just show the minion's final attributes.

I think you mean Excel, not Outlook.

That said, if PoE is written in a language that is based around Object Oriented Programming (which based on Mark's comments, I'm guessing it is), then that sheet you are trying to read from isn't in the same program, which is the problem. Yes, Cell b1 can display the value in cell a1 of the same sheet by putting "=a1" in it, but to use that example, in this case, your character is MyChar.xls, and your zombies are in files Zombie1.xls, Zombie2.xls, Zombie3.xls... And MyChar.xls doesn't have the permissions to look at the other files.

Is it possible? sure, it's a computer program, it can technically be changed in any way. However, the ease and security of doing so are not apparent to anyone but the designers; and according to them, it's a long-term change.

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themousemaster wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

I don't see how us not having access to the information warrants us not having it. The entity has information, and can easily be reflected elsewhere.

All that needs be done is something similar to what one would do in Outlook, or any other similar programs. I believe the command is "=a1" or so. It simply displays what is shown in another box. In this case, we'd just show the minion's final attributes.

I think you mean Excel, not Outlook.

That said, if PoE is written in a language that is based around Object Oriented Programming (which based on Mark's comments, I'm guessing it is), then that sheet you are trying to read from isn't in the same program, which is the problem. Yes, Cell b1 can display the value in cell a1 of the same sheet by putting "=a1" in it, but to use that example, in this case, your character is MyChar.xls, and your zombies are in files Zombie1.xls, Zombie2.xls, Zombie3.xls... And MyChar.xls doesn't have the permissions to look at the other files.

Is it possible? sure, it's a computer program, it can technically be changed in any way. However, the ease and security of doing so are not apparent to anyone but the designers; and according to them, it's a long-term change.

You can easily place links to the zombie information within the character file for the game to use, without it altering anything that the players have or know of.

If that's impossible, you can have it check those separate files by itself.

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Natharias wrote:

You can easily place links to the zombie information within the character file for the game to use, without it altering anything that the players have or know of.

If that's impossible, you can have it check those separate files by itself.

If they do the first one, then it's either no longer proper object oriented programming, or else all the zombies are "dedicated child processes" of MyChar, which is possible, but I'm guessing unlikely, as it leads to the case where if a Zombie gets "stuck" in it's code, then your character will as well until the zombie's code finishes, which would be terrible.



If they do the second one, it can't be done from the "MyChar.xls", as that file does is not the Zombie object, and therefore cannot call any data from the Zombie object; it would have to be a routine called within the Zombie object (whether that Zombie-data function is instigated by the Zombie itself or a requested call from MyChar doesn't change where the function runs from).

The 2nd one is the more likely method they will use, but since it's not "native" to MyChar, it would instead be a routine that has to be run with a set frequency from each Zombie Object... and this game REALLY does not need more constant-frequency run functions clogging it up right now, given it's performance in "high action" areas.

So they would have to set the frequency very low (casuing misreporting for zombies entering and exiting auras, or whatnot).



Well, technically, there is the option of letting the MyChar just "guess" what a Zombie's DPS is, but as Diablo2 showed with it's character window, that's a losing proposition.






That all said, the original request of showing Zombie DPS could still be done from MyChar, IF the tooltip DPS ONLY represents what the zombie does, exactly as it is cast, at the time the tooltip is looked at (which was suggested earlier I believe). If you want to know how much active damage a zombie is doing this won't help much, but if you just want the game to calculate MyChar's base zombie damage and attack speed (taking into account all MyChar specific mods, such as modifiers from MyChar's gear and skill points), that could be done, though without direct access to the code, I can't say how quickly it would be to pull it off.

I have no doubt though that, if this method is adopted, there will be posts from people who complain that because that number is not accurate at all times, then it is an "insult to game design" and worthy of insulting GGG's parentage over, or what have you.





(Please note: I use zombies and summons a LOT, so seeing a zombie's tooltip damage would be very useful to me as well. Not that "it doesn't affect you so you shouldn't complain" is a valid argument to quiet other people mind you, but I'm definitely not arguing from the opposite polar fallacy)

in the mean time we can just the maths the hard way

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themousemaster wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

You can easily place links to the zombie information within the character file for the game to use, without it altering anything that the players have or know of.

If that's impossible, you can have it check those separate files by itself.

If they do the first one, then it's either no longer proper object oriented programming, or else all the zombies are "dedicated child processes" of MyChar, which is possible, but I'm guessing unlikely, as it leads to the case where if a Zombie gets "stuck" in it's code, then your character will as well until the zombie's code finishes, which would be terrible.



If they do the second one, it can't be done from the "MyChar.xls", as that file does is not the Zombie object, and therefore cannot call any data from the Zombie object; it would have to be a routine called within the Zombie object (whether that Zombie-data function is instigated by the Zombie itself or a requested call from MyChar doesn't change where the function runs from).

The 2nd one is the more likely method they will use, but since it's not "native" to MyChar, it would instead be a routine that has to be run with a set frequency from each Zombie Object... and this game REALLY does not need more constant-frequency run functions clogging it up right now, given it's performance in "high action" areas.

So they would have to set the frequency very low (casuing misreporting for zombies entering and exiting auras, or whatnot).



Well, technically, there is the option of letting the MyChar just "guess" what a Zombie's DPS is, but as Diablo2 showed with it's character window, that's a losing proposition.






That all said, the original request of showing Zombie DPS could still be done from MyChar, IF the tooltip DPS ONLY represents what the zombie does, exactly as it is cast, at the time the tooltip is looked at (which was suggested earlier I believe). If you want to know how much active damage a zombie is doing this won't help much, but if you just want the game to calculate MyChar's base zombie damage and attack speed (taking into account all MyChar specific mods, such as modifiers from MyChar's gear and skill points), that could be done, though without direct access to the code, I can't say how quickly it would be to pull it off.

I have no doubt though that, if this method is adopted, there will be posts from people who complain that because that number is not accurate at all times, then it is an "insult to game design" and worthy of insulting GGG's parentage over, or what have you.





(Please note: I use zombies and summons a LOT, so seeing a zombie's tooltip damage would be very useful to me as well. Not that "it doesn't affect you so you shouldn't complain" is a valid argument to quiet other people mind you, but I'm definitely not arguing from the opposite polar fallacy)

Mentioned at least by me. I haven't re-read everything.