Map drop rates are too high

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morbo wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

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DS_Deadman wrote:

I have not heard one good argument to reduce it.

1) Less maps would increase currency spent on maps. This currency sink disproportionately effects the wealthy, who run such high level maps, more than the poor who don't.

Welcome back to OB, with a new "I ran out of maps" thread every day.

Maps are finally what they should be - endgame content reachable for everybody. While no-lifers already have plenty of other things to do (masters to 8, atziri & uber, hunting legacy uniques with Zana...), your "good argument" to reduce map accessibility, would cut more casual / common people from an even wider % of the game.

We are back to OB, where people quit because they couldn't sustain 70s maps.

E:
Not to mention the whole drops system is designed on the premise that your run hundreds of maps, before you loot some good gear.

E2:
And the stupidly wide RNG map drop variance? Good luck throwing a few exalts worth of currency, on your last five high-level maps and getting nothing out of it.

+1.

heck, +1000 because it's written by a guy who's been there, and actually quit for a while because of how dominant stupid RNG was in Open Beta.

it still is too dominant and stupid - which is exactly why my risk/reward threads and posts keep being written - but what you guys agreeing with OP are saying, is you actually want this back. you want the old design back. and I'm just reading this thinking "what the fuck are you even thinking?", tbh.

the only way I could somewhat relate to your argument, is if you provided a trade-off. like less map drops but rolling maps with insane mods actually matters, or less map drops but each map can have tons of different combinations, which would rarely make one Tropical Island look like another.
you aren't. you are just being all that "elitist", saying "game is easy" and want to bring back something that pisses people off, and can completely fuck anyone who's not a 24/7 party-grinder/trader.

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morbo wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

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DS_Deadman wrote:

I have not heard one good argument to reduce it.

1) Less maps would increase currency spent on maps. This currency sink disproportionately effects the wealthy, who run such high level maps, more than the poor who don't.

Welcome back to OB, with a new "I ran out of maps" thread every day.

Maps are finally what they should be - endgame content reachable for everybody. While no-lifers already have plenty of other things to do (masters to 8, atziri & uber, hunting legacy uniques with Zana...), your "good argument" to reduce map accessibility, would cut more casual / common people from an even wider % of the game.

Claiming that less maps means a return to OB situation creates a false dilemma-- creating the illusion of only 2 options when there are actually more. Back in OB there was no Zana nor Cartographer boxes, Maze was a mod, and a few other differences. To argue the only outcome of a map reduction would be going all the way back to OB is onerous hyperbole. It did rally johnKeys to your cause, so if that was your intention then good job with that. But if your intention was to persuade me, then that failed.

For casual players Zana seems to solve the described OB mapping dilemma by herself. At worst it's 1 day without a map, and that map will be mid-level. I have to do at least 2-3 maps a day to actually begin draining my reserve, and that's just with Transmutation + Augmentation maps. No Chisels, no Alch, no Alt (unless there's a mod that ruins the map like No Regen). I'm essentially spending nothing at all and able to maintain an hour of mapping a day (including the daily) without even tapping my reserves. Indeed, my supply has grown from 1 stash tab to 2 just this past week (well, more like 1.2 tabs but the rest of the 0.8 tab is reserved for holding maps that I am confident I will accumulate). You can fearmonger all you like about how bad it used to be, I'm talking about how it actually is now.

For less casual players that have more time to devote, maybe it's the right amount of maps now, or maybe we could still use more. But there's a crucial distinction here- your counter was that casual players quit, and we're not talking about casual players anymore. Your attempt to steer the conversation toward OB's problems ignored critical facts of the situation, namely Zana's impact on casual players, and for this reason it has no persuasive power.

^ what exactly is "the problem" here?

That players don't sink enough orbs? Even if it was true, why care? Having to spend more orbs on maps (like in the good old days), would more negatively impact the poor than the wealthy.

Are endgame players bored and don't play the game anymore? Doesn't seem to me. Besides mapping, which is the core of what we have been doing for months (and are still not totally sick of it), there's other things for top end players to do - atziri, master grind, legacy hunt...

This whole thread is based on a non-issue and imagined problems. Each new expansion has made the endgame more accessible, for a wider audience, which is only good. Fuck the pyramidal caste system. Everyone can and should be able to play endgame, on all levels.

There were much more people bored of not being able to play the damn game in the past, than there are "bored of mapping, because map drops are too high" nowadays.

E:
And if OP is concerned about people leaving because the game is too accessible, then... lol... There's a plethora of much more problematic issues that cause bad retention. Just look at the current crappy elitist race season 9, designed to drive away as much players as possible.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

I have to do at least 2-3 maps a day to actually begin draining my reserve, and that's just with Transmutation + Augmentation maps. No Chisels, no Alch, no Alt (unless there's a mod that ruins the map like No Regen). I'm essentially spending nothing at all and able to maintain an hour of mapping a day (including the daily) without even tapping my reserves.

So you are complaining that you can play the grinding game in peace, without having to manage your finances, spam trade chat for orbs or grind orbs like a drone in quest areas, before you can actually play maps... Jesus -_-

There's always ways to spend some buck, like gambling. Or roll a few Zana mods on top, it will quickly even out your savings.

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johnKeys wrote:

Nothing "glorious" or "epic" about Open Beta mapping, Chunda.
Ask Anuhart. He helped give BillNRND a farewell map run before he left the game.
A Shrine it was, I think?
They used all of Bill's orbs, and most of Anuhart's to roll "the perfect map".
Recorded it in a thread.

Result was absolutely fucking nothing. Zero. Fucking bullshit RNG telling them both "screw you!" In the clearest way possible.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather do five Prostate exams in a row, than see this kind of crap go back into the game and actually keep playing.
Never again.

Wouldn't you love it if that doomsday 77, the ultimate map, where you poured all your currency was that glorious fountain of maps (carto box)

Obviously I ain't talking current PoE here, I'm dreaming of the ideal game but I would love that.

Any takers? Old 77s but guaranteed mini-carto in it?

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morbo wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

I have to do at least 2-3 maps a day to actually begin draining my reserve, and that's just with Transmutation + Augmentation maps. No Chisels, no Alch, no Alt (unless there's a mod that ruins the map like No Regen). I'm essentially spending nothing at all and able to maintain an hour of mapping a day (including the daily) without even tapping my reserves.

So you are complaining that you can play the grinding game in peace, without having to manage your finances, spam trade chat for orbs or grind orbs like a drone in quest areas, before you can actually play maps... Jesus -_-

There's always ways to spend some buck, like gambling. Or roll a few Zana mods on top, it will quickly even out your savings.

You need to learn to understand that the game might have developed in your favour, but sure as hell not in the favour of a lot of other people. The game as it is right now, neither me nor 90% of the people I played with in the past would have spent a single cent on it.

GGG went against almost every single principle they had in CB. They netted the money and moved on, turning the game upside down. Again, you might welcome that, but I sure as hell dont have to.

When I read bullshit like anyone should have access to endgame I am close to puking. Anyone had access to endgame, it just took them longer to reach it or they simply were too incompetent to properly roll their maps. 77 maps were almost impossible to sustain for hardcore groups. Why do you think we used to Exalt them? Because he had nothing better to do with our money? Not being able to get past 70 maps in OB didnt happen because of RNG but because people obviously didnt get how to properly roll maps.

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This whole thread is based on a non-issue and imagined problems. Each new expansion has made the endgame more accessible, for a wider audience, which is only good.

This sums up the current agenda of the developers and in my book this isnt good. By that logic junk games like Call of Duty and Bioshok Infite bring the industry forward, which they sure as hell dont do. I wasnt interested in this title because it was accessible. And neither were the people I play with.

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nynyny wrote:

When I read bullshit like anyone should have access to endgame I am close to puking. Anyone had access to endgame, it just took them longer to reach it or they simply were too incompetent to properly roll their maps. 77 maps were almost impossible to sustain for hardcore groups. Why do you think we used to Exalt them? Because he had nothing better to do with our money? Not being able to get past 70 maps in OB didnt happen because of RNG but because people obviously didnt get how to properly roll maps.

It wasn't possible for everyone to 'properly roll maps' how the hell could it be?

To 'properly roll a map' required not the amount of orbs that you would find from that map, but the orbs that 10, 20, 50, 100, more? people would find from a map.

So where did the orbs come from that you used to 'properly roll maps'?
Revelation!!!, from those who couldn't 'properly roll maps'.
Why couldn't they?
Because their orbs had left them and gone up the pyramid to allow you to 'properly roll maps'.

My god, full facepalm, seriously.

Now, if, IF, somehow everybody tried to 'properly roll maps', if somehow everybody had the same amount of orbs to use.. then.. fucking NOBODY could 'properly roll maps' not even you.

Pyramids being what they are, the amount of people who did 'properly roll maps' was the tip of the pyramid and the main body, the middle and bottom were pissed off. What happens when players are pissed off? They quit. What happens when they quit? Revelation#2!!! the top of the pyramid no longer gets fed and now can't 'properly roll maps'.

Are we getting somewhere, now?

The system was self destruction, it had to change, it changed.

Just because you once again try to make up shit doesnt mean that it actually was the case. In OB most people wasted so many damn Alts on sub 69 maps, and so many damn Chaos on anything upwards that it clearly showed that they had literally no clue what they were doing.

Wasting multiple stacks on a damn 67 because they were under the impression that a maze is worth is on every single map out there. People trying to proper roll the abysmal base that was Vaals Pyramid because they thought decent mods will make that abomination of a map useful.

People had no idea what they were doing. Its as simple as that. The game was new, no guides etc. so they were lost. It had almost nothing to do with currency being available. I am not talking about 75+ maps that you blew multiple Chaos stacks on. But anything up to that point. If youre seriously implying that competent players burned tons of Chaos on a 72 then I question your credibility.

Yes you need money to sustain high level maps. Yes you need lots and lots of money. But that wasnt part of the point, especially since thats exactly what made the game interesting. A Shrine, a Necropolis, hell even a fucking Precinct were like a blessing. They felt like something special, something you were hyped for, something you prepered half an hour to run it in some cases.

[Removed by Support]

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nynyny wrote:

poop

Must be great to be able to see what everyone is doing, oh all-seeing-nynyny.

I think, though, you were dreaming. That didn't actually happen, you didn't have sight into how everyone was rolling their maps and that my post pretty much explained the issue, why it was fixed and the nonsense of your post that I replied to.

TheAnuhart is correct in his observation nynyny, whether you agree with it or not.

People did leave if they weren't in the top of the pyramid, literally taking the "luck" from others and feeding it to themselves.

That is not to say there isn't any merit to your stance, however like anuhart already mentioned, it is self-destructive and cannot endure. I believe GGG realized this and made changes accordingly.

The same thing is happening with the fragment farming atm, it's only a mater of time until GGG caves and finds an alternate solution to this issue. Or it will become a game of buying mass frags mid-league.

Which is also an option, since the fragment farming isn't nearly as destructive as the map system, since it's only optional content to run and map's are deemed necessary by most players and a succession of the normal content.(allowing it to remain in pyramid limbo)

Peace,

-Boem-