HP/ES starting nodes should be moved/removed.

"

battled wrote:

Look at Duelist/Marauder/Witch/Ranger. They all have health or energy shield as an exiting node. What do all the good build starting as these classes do?
->they all go trough the life nodes ignoring damage nodes.

"

Natharias wrote:

"

battled wrote:

Look at Duelist/Marauder/Witch/Ranger. They all have health or energy shield as an exiting node. What do all the good build starting as these classes do?
->they all go trough the life nodes ignoring damage nodes.

Not entirely true, but isn't that what you need to do with the vast majority of your passive skill points?

Thread that has no point.

"

battled wrote:

Look at Duelist/Marauder/Witch/Ranger. They all have health or energy shield as an exiting node. What do all the good build starting as these classes do?
->they all go trough the life nodes ignoring damage nodes.
Now how do we fix this, or is it a problem at all?Aren't both damage and HP starting nodes better than similar average nodes on the tree?
Well yes and no. While the starting damage node and the one after it are superior to the average node the nodes after it are actually equal to average nodes. Grabbing the first two is actually pretty common, while traveling all the way trough them almost non existent.
The metagame revolves around planning your tree to get a set amount of minimum defense(150%life/200%ES) and then grabbing the closest damage nodes. Considering the damage nodes at the start of the tree are always close, why does nobody take them even then? Because they aren't cost effective. Because all the otside damage clusters have notables. Why take 12%x12%xx12% nodes when you have a something that gives you 12%x12%x24%?
So what am I trying to say? Buff starting damage nodes? HECK NO. This will not fix this particular problem. What needs to be done is replace starting points that give defenses with something different.
Look at shadow tree: you can start trough physical or elemental damage passives and both of them connecto to a life cluster and if you specialize further trough them they also take you to ES/EV cluster. The shadow cluster is designed with the knowledge that everyone will always take life/ES nodes, that those nodes aren't nodes that you should chose over something else, all will chose the life/ES. All trees should be like this unless.

What do I propose?
Simple:
For duelist replace the 3 life and 2ias and 1 phys node with 2handed and 1 handed nodes and put the life nodes where the 2h and 1h nodes used to be. Alternatively put them where the mana cluster is to make the access to them more fair.
Witch should have the general wand damage in her start in place of ES.
Marauder's tree needs a complete overhaul so there's no use talking about moveing anything in it.
Ranger migh as wel have something unique, like movement speed and weapon swap speed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

All your statement just exposes again the fundamental flaw in game desighn - HP nodes (life or ES) are MANDATORY, and no build can have enough of those.

In those realities, starting HP nodes add great versatility to most classes.

What should be done to fix things completely? Plain simple! All general "+10 str/dex/int" nodes should be replaced with something like "+5 str/dex/int AND +2% life", while lots of life nodes removed. Since life is mandatory anyway, why dont add it into most general nodes?

"

battled wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

"

battled wrote:

Look at Duelist/Marauder/Witch/Ranger. They all have health or energy shield as an exiting node. What do all the good build starting as these classes do?
->they all go trough the life nodes ignoring damage nodes.

Not entirely true, but isn't that what you need to do with the vast majority of your passive skill points?

Thread that has no point.

The point is to make it so there is an actual choice when you start as these classes. Unless we move the HP/ES starting nodes everyone will always go trough them, essentially negating any semblance of choice.