LV20 q20 Arc - Vaal or not?

I got a LV20 q20 Arc (my main attack)

I am considering to Vaal it or not.

Before I make my decision, I want to see how many player here got q21 or lv21 or corrupted (decreased q and lv of the gem)

Just did a search on poexyz and there is only 6 lv21 arc and 23 q21 or above for sell...is that mean the lv21 is very rare or just not so many people willing to sell it?

Thanks,

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Exorcist901 wrote:

I got a LV20 q20 Arc (my main attack)

I am considering to Vaal it or not.

Before I make my decision, I want to see how many player here got q21 or lv21 or corrupted (decreased q and lv of the gem)

Just did a search on poexyz and there is only 6 lv21 arc and 23 q21 or above for sell...is that mean the lv21 is very rare or just not so many people willing to sell it?

Thanks,

A single player shown it before, around 20 gems with lvl20 and 20% quality.
Only one went up one level to lvl21. I think two gems went up to 23% quality.

If you ask me, I just yolo it.
Its not like it will be the end of the world.

Normally, I have zero hesitation about corrupting 20/20 gems, because the stakes are pretty low compared to corrupting expensive uniques -- you might stand to lose a level or some quality.

But Vaal Arc is pretty useless as far as Vaal gems go (tried it briefly, and can't recommend it over Vaal Stormcall or Vaal Spark, both of which have great utility as both single and multi-target DPS), so you'd have to be ok with the possibility that you'll end up with something worthless.

In your situation (I actually have a witch that uses a 18/20 Arc as their primary aoe), I'd still Vaal it once it reaches 20/20, but only because 1) I have another high level Arc in my stash, and 2) I can play one of my other characters while leveling my backup Arc.

I usually vaal all my 20/20 gems, but if it's your primary skill, and it can go to a vaal gem, don't do it unless you have a backup.

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Brian_GGG wrote:

While I can't suggest what to do one way or another, just be aware that it could turn into a Vaal Arc, and so if you do decide to Vaal your Arc gem, it might pay to have a back up Arc should the worst happen. :)

Goes to show how useless vaal gems are. I've yet to find a reason to incorporate any of them in any of my builds.

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Natharias wrote:

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Brian_GGG wrote:

While I can't suggest what to do one way or another, just be aware that it could turn into a Vaal Arc, and so if you do decide to Vaal your Arc gem, it might pay to have a back up Arc should the worst happen. :)

Goes to show how useless vaal gems are. I've yet to find a reason to incorporate any of them in any of my builds.

If you play a summoner build (either zombies, or the currently popular Summon Raging Spirits build), then one or two Vaal Haste gems makes both solo and group clears hilariously fast.



Vaal Rain - nice utility skill against melee unique bosses and for the Vorici-open-chest missions; doesn't need to be paired with supports, other than optionally Increased Duration

Vaal Cyclone - great for quickly clearing maps - sucking in all the mobs from off-screen and blender them to death. particularly fun with RF cyclone builds

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HoosTrax wrote:

Vaal Cyclone - great for quickly clearing maps - sucking in all the mobs from off-screen and blender them to death. particularly fun with RF cyclone builds

But can also be veeery dangerous, especially if you suck in a lot of porcupine goliaths, molten shell totems or mimara's exploding zombies. I got it on one build but use it only for laughs, never if I suspect shit might start pouring in. For instance tonight I used in in double boss gorge, they aren't dangerous and it kept them from running around so my teammate could kill them faster with his cascade... plus if was pretty hilarious :)

The problem with vaal damage gems is they require a full support setup to really kick ass, so people prefer stuff like vaal haste and molten shell that are useful when vanilla too. I use haste myself on one non-summoner build I got a free slot in gear next to a inc duration support and there's some room on taskbar too, so why not.

Many summoner builds use vaal skeletons if they can spare a slot, it can really turn a shit situation in your favor quickly.

I guess we could use some more gem slots, two slots in a belt might be ok, it's too low for a normal gem setup but it could be used for a vaal gem combined with one support of choice.

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HoosTrax wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

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Brian_GGG wrote:

While I can't suggest what to do one way or another, just be aware that it could turn into a Vaal Arc, and so if you do decide to Vaal your Arc gem, it might pay to have a back up Arc should the worst happen. :)

Goes to show how useless vaal gems are. I've yet to find a reason to incorporate any of them in any of my builds.

If you play a summoner build (either zombies, or the currently popular Summon Raging Spirits build), then one or two Vaal Haste gems makes both solo and group clears hilariously fast.



Vaal Rain - nice utility skill against melee unique bosses and for the Vorici-open-chest missions; doesn't need to be paired with supports, other than optionally Increased Duration

Vaal Cyclone - great for quickly clearing maps - sucking in all the mobs from off-screen and blender them to death. particularly fun with RF cyclone builds

Let me go through the vaal gems to show why I just don't see their use:

Glacial hammer, who cares if it surrounds you and a few enemies with frost walls? This game is about killing them and if you aren't killing them in a few seconds then your build is lacking.

Ground Slam knockback? Melee doesn't want that, Leap Slam and Lightning Warp are options to move yourself to a better spot, and things like Incinerate can easily use the support gem to always keep enemies away.

Immortal Call? A few seconds of "cannot die"? If resistances are good and you use normal IC, you're fine.

Lightning Strike is also useless. You can't really make use of it unless you kite a lot, and that means less DPS from other skills. Just like GH.

Molten Shell might be nice, but reflect would be a huge problem. Not really worth the two sockets that would be required. Increased Duration would be a must-have.

Burning Arrow is just an AOE built in version that can't miss due to evasion.

Cyclone is nice, but many builds already have such AOE that this is a waste. Incinerate can easily clear their screen in two seconds, and things like CoC would actually disconnect from using this.

Detonate Dead? LOL. If you're looking to remove corpses, an offering with Spell Echo is not only available 24/7, it works faster. If you're looking at damage, there aren't usually enough corpses around the target you need to kill.

Double Strike makes a copy of you that deals almost no damage. Nice.

Grace gives you some dodge. Very handy, but if you need that to survive then you're kinda screwed when you don't have it up.

Increased speed from Haste? Nice but it doesn't do much more than ice the cake.

Rain of Arrows is good to keep things in place, but if you do that it's because you're dying.

Reave is just like the other melee skills above. Not impressive at all.

Hammerdin? Not worth it to get a ST that just spins in a circle.

Arc? Useless without at least 3 targets that will survive all of the chains. Not so useful if you use it to clear a trash mob your main skill would've cleared in the same amount of time.

Clarity? No mana cost? Nice if you have no mana and no Soul Taker, but again shows a weak build.

Cold Snap? Just use Cold Snap + EP. Bam, done.

It's the same thing. I think the only really "bad" vaal gem is Righteous Fire. I mean you're killing 99% of yourself to deal that damage around you. If so much as one point of damage is dealt to you, you're totally wasted.

This is why I firmly know vaal gems are utterly worthless.

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Natharias wrote:

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Brian_GGG wrote:

While I can't suggest what to do one way or another, just be aware that it could turn into a Vaal Arc, and so if you do decide to Vaal your Arc gem, it might pay to have a back up Arc should the worst happen. :)

Goes to show how useless vaal gems are. I've yet to find a reason to incorporate any of them in any of my builds.

One of my builds uses Vaal RF as main skill. It focuses on life+ES and AoE and uses burn-proliferate. Its effectivness is based on mob density in maps, with good density it can be used continuously. Fast, fun and dangerous (only in SC:))

ps: It would work great with ES variant of Atziri's Splendour (thanks to life on kill), which I unfortunately dont have:)

but this is only one of many examples how effective (and fun) some vaal skills can be

edit: also, your examples above are kinda misleading. Vaal skills, similar to normal skills, need to be in synergy with your build to be effective

edit:

one example:

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Detonate Dead? LOL. If you're looking to remove corpses, an offering with Spell Echo is not only available 24/7, it works faster. If you're looking at damage, there aren't usually enough corpses around the target you need to kill.

for most builds? yes. But try using it with Detonate dead build that uses sunblast multitrap desecrate (I was playing it last league)

example two:

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Clarity? No mana cost? Nice if you have no mana and no Soul Taker, but again shows a weak build.

ok. but who says you have to use it for casting "regular" skills? You can ie use it with melee build (that otherwise has no mana problems with is 30-50 mana per second usage) to switch to dominating blow for some time to periodically create minions

etc