Odd life leech test results

I don't see anything that could affect the result, but gear for test:
Spoiler


Geoffri's is used to remove crits from test (25% crit, 300% mult barehanded)

GEMS:
Spoiler



Merciless Twilight strand, hungry corpse that kills exile.
Let myself get hit, then attack and see how much ES was gained. Repeat.
Shotgunning or aiming at an angle to hit with one pulse didn't SEEM to make a difference (consistent with new leech mechanics but see results).

573-859 spell damage on character sheet
401-601 with LMP
286-430 with GMP
200-301 with GMP+LMP

5.9%LL

Leech amount:
FP+LL: 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60... 30 once in a while (10%)
FP+LL+LMP: 30, 30, 30, 30, 30... hard to make repeatable but if I back up slightly and aim far: 60
FP+LL+GMP: 30, 30, 30, 30, 30... more repeatable if I back up slightly and aim far: 60
FPP+LL+GMP+LMP: 30, 30, 30, 30.... more repeatable if I back up slightly and aim far: 60

Things I don't get:
-EXACTLY same amount leeched everytime -> same damage every time?
-Same amount leeched by gmp/lmp/gmp+lmp -> same damage per pulse no matter which?
-Increased leeched by moving back a little -> shotgunning leech OR pulse does less damage up close?

What am I missing here?
Leech cap?

If you deal enough dmg the "less" dmg from lmp / gmp doesn't matter because you still leech as much as you can.

Try the same with vaal pact, then report back ;)
Last edited by biomuesli on Oct 14, 2014, 5:50:16 PM
The more projectiles hit at once the more likely it should be that you always get the same amount, because the leech effect of all is applied at the same time and you only will notice the largest. And since more projectiles = higher chance to get the top end damage roll on one projectile, your results are kinda what I would expect there.

Why you would always get the same amount with a single projectile, no idea. Leeching 60 life with your damage and 5.9% life leech would actually mean you dealt 60/0.059 ~= 1017 damage, more than the top end of your character sheet shows. ô_O

I would suggest repeating the testing with a different skill, FP has that "less damage further away"-property, with e.g. Arctic Breath you could at least eliminate this source of errors.

€dit: Uh, and of course we have to deal with resistances. Difficulties everywhere.
Last edited by Lord_of_Error on Oct 14, 2014, 6:09:27 PM
Some screen shots or video of your tests could help.

Test another skill too. I'm interested how you get more damage from freeze pulse being further away. Maybe mouse cursor position is effecting it?

<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Opinionated wrote:
Some screen shots or video of your tests could help.

Test another skill too. I'm interested how you get more damage from freeze pulse being further away. Maybe mouse cursor position is effecting it?

Mouse position can control how FP projectiles are spread, the closer you move to the edge of your screen the tighter they are, and thus more projectiles hit the target at once, which then increases the chance of having at least one projectile with top end damage.
Guess that's what is meant by "back up slightly and aim far".
Last edited by Lord_of_Error on Oct 14, 2014, 6:37:37 PM
"
Lord_of_Error wrote:
"
Opinionated wrote:
Some screen shots or video of your tests could help.

Test another skill too. I'm interested how you get more damage from freeze pulse being further away. Maybe mouse cursor position is effecting it?

Mouse position can control how FP projectiles are spread, the closer you move to the edge of your screen the tighter they are, and thus more projectiles hit the target at once, which then increases the chance of having at least one projectile with top end damage.
Guess that's what is meant by "back up slightly and aim far".


That would make sense to me, and a screen shot could confirm.

I just didn't think it was possible to spread the projectiles enough to miss while in "shotgun" range. Then again we don't actually see what range the test is being done in and they could be "angling".
<3 Free Tibet <3
The number of projectiles hitting the target should not matter. Per the new mechanics, without vaal pact, an aoe attack will only apply highest leech (all other leech tick down but do nothing) when they would all queue before - I'd think the same goes for simultaneous projectiles damage.
Thus, whether I hit with one or 7 projectiles shouldn't matter because they theoretically are not additive leech without vaal pact.

No matter what the damage done there is no "cap" only a fixed leech rate of 20% hp/es per second (can be changed by gear/LL quality).

About the double leech with distance thing, the only thing I can think of is that 2 projectiles hit at different times somehow? The game should know that's from one cast though so kinda odd.

-It makes no sense for the leech to be the same number every single time, seems to imply same damage every time or some serious rounding.
-It makes no sense for the leech to be halved regardless of which was used: lmp, gmp, lmp+gmp; it should be 70%,50%,35%.

Thinking about posting this to bugs but maybe someone knows something I don't.
Last edited by icemltr on Oct 15, 2014, 2:58:50 PM
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icemltr wrote:
The number of projectiles hitting the target should not matter. Per the new mechanics, without vaal pact, an aoe attack will only apply highest leech (all other leech tick down but do nothing) when they would all queue before - I'd think the same goes for simultaneous projectiles damage.
Thus, whether I hit with one or 7 projectiles shouldn't matter because they theoretically are not additive leech without vaal pact.

No matter what the damage done there is no "cap" only a fixed leech rate of 20% hp/es per second (can be changed by gear/LL quality).

About the double leech with distance thing, the only thing I can think of is that 2 projectiles hit at different times somehow? The game should know that's from one cast though so kinda odd.

-It makes no sense for the leech to be the same number every single time, seems to imply same damage every time or some serious rounding.
-It makes no sense for the leech to be halved regardless of which was used: lmp, gmp, lmp+gmp; it should be 70%,50%,35%.

Thinking about posting this to bugs but maybe someone knows something I don't.


You are wrong if I'm right :D

Leech is still additive, but not added after the cap oO
So before patch you leeched til cap and every leech afterwards, was collected and replenished after the capped second
Somehow like this... now it doesn't stack afterwards, that's basically it

Explained somewhere
only way to lengthen leeching in current patch, is to:
a) deal more damage than 20% (or 24.4 ish via quality gem if using such) of hp, thus the extra carries over into a duration (which it always is but might be near instant due to the rate as people's hp is massive now days)
b) spread out the hits. for example, an attack can hit 5 foes in a rough line, leeching happens the moment damage is dealt but time is passing (even micro seconds) between each hit, so the next leech is still there but doesn't "work" unless its stronger than previous leech or until the first leech is done. this repeats until the 5th hit.
* this is actually just like before patch however instead of queueing up, it overlaps depending on power.

there never was a cap, just a rate.

anyways back to OP...
are you hitting just one foe? i'll assume so.
you are using freezing pulse, damage is weaker the further you are from target in addition to mods.

with only fp+ll, your leech should be between 33.8 and 50.7 per single hit while casting in the face of the foe AND it has no resistances. (your "60" is far off in this case)
lmp: 23.7 to 35.5 (your "30" is correct in this case)
gmp: 16.9 to 25.4 (impossible to get reasonable leeching unless using the "foes are lined up" sort of thing at this point)
lmp+gmp: 11.8 to 17.8 (no)

so you're watching your hp poorly (if you're hitting just one foe as i'm assuming) as i did with trying to double check a bubbling flask mod with flask effect passives.
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soul4hdwn wrote:
an attack can hit 5 foes in a rough line, leeching happens the moment damage is dealt but time is passing (even micro seconds) between each hit

This could explain the moving away and doubling the leech with LMP/GMP/LMPGMP, since with the ES I had my rate would be around 30 ES per 0.025seconds.

But as I said and you assumed, I go to twilight and use the hungry corpse there that attacks the dying exile so only one monster.
I don't move, he melees me, then I cast FP in his face.
Also the LL gem lists 5.9% leech on my screen, I had ~6000 es so the leech happened nearly instantly (rate would be ~60 ES per 0.05second).

The numbers I listed for my leech are what I saw - always exactly the same number 60 or 30. I do not have any life regen applying to ES and my recharge happened 1-2 second after leech.

I didn't have herald of ice on and the monster should have ~40% resist (though I have negligible 2%pen from tree) so none of the leech values make sense, especially the fact that they are EXACTLY the same which seemingly implies always same damage or weird rounding.

The leech, 60, is too high for a single cast and lmp/gmp/lmp+gmp all leeching 30, instead of 42/30/21 respectively, doesn't make any sense.

Before switching to geoffri's and the hungry corpse, I was seeing these leech numbers* on twilight zombies, only one at a time lured away from a pack:
Single pulse: 157 crit, 78 noncrit
LMP: 118 crit, 39 noncrit
GMP: 118 crit, 39 noncrit
LMP+GMP: Did not test
*additional 1%cold leech from dagger
(along with +27% spell damage but that's not multiplicative due to passives 233% damage)

Again EXACTLY those values with no variance, note that LMP/GMP are again both 50% of the leech, instead of the expected 70% and 50%, and correctly have the 300% crit multiplier applied while single pulse oddly only has 200%.

After 10 or so leeches with each setup I switched to geoff to remove crit factor, and to hungry corpse for faster tests (he's near wp for fast instance reset, and an isolated single target).
Last edited by icemltr on Oct 15, 2014, 7:36:59 PM

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