[Discussion] Does bloodrage give lowlife players an unfair advantage over CI/life based builds?

I believe this to be an elephant in the room.

As it stands now, blood rage currently gives 111% increased attack speed EXCLUSIVELY for lowlife ES players (given lvl 4 enhance and 20/23 bloodmagic gem). That is an enormous amount of DPS for a very little side effect of 3.8% of current LIFE (note: Not ES) as chaos dmg per second. Many players dont even bother putting on chaos resist while running it as low life because it isn't significant damage being dealt to them.

So the question is: Is it justifiable for low life to get this many benefits with little to no cost?

My personal take on it: I think they should either dial back the amount of attack speed given to players on low life with it OR change the chaos damage to affect total ES as well as life. I feel bloodrage is far too powerful for lowlife for the cost to run it.

What are your thoughts about this?

Would love to get GGG's opinion on it as well. If you have time.

Sometimes I just feel GGG is avoiding this completely because so many people have invested into these builds which use this and they don't want to upset them and loes a lot of customers (We all know the people using all the GG shav items are rich irl ;) ). This isn't fair to players which want balance.

For sure! This was discussed for about 3-4 weeks before the current leagues started. GGG basically did nothing to address low-life other than fixing snapshotting, when many ppl already mentioned at this time that this alone does not fix at all the huge overpoweredness of low-life.

The same is ture for daggers, for crits in general and some other stuff.


I get to the point where I believe that GGG does not want to balance their game or are simply overburdened.

It certainly does not.

I did a build low life ES nado split shot using blood rage, 6l shavs etc.. I had like 1500+ more es than my life but no acrobatics, less damage nodes because of having to travel further, less sustain because no lgoh / instant life pot.

The same build going life is so much stronger in every way possible. You just need to be aware of certain combinations for huge spike damage and keep your distance. Even though I didn't have blood rage, I used FA instead of crit chance because of easier colors and that made up for it. The passives alone provide more dps than blood rage and having to get ES nodes.

Life: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1010032

LL ES: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1079693

I didn't want to go 10 aura low life ele since my gf is that support build, but with this build using ice / hatred / ash with phys low life still was much weaker and lower dps.

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terrex wrote:

It certainly does not.

I did a build low life ES nado split shot using blood rage, 6l shavs etc.. I had like 1500+ more es than my life but no acrobatics, less damage nodes because of having to travel further, less sustain because no lgoh / instant life pot.

The same build going life is so much stronger in every way possible. You just need to be aware of certain combinations for huge spike damage and keep your distance. Even though I didn't have blood rage, I used FA instead of crit chance because of easier colors and that made up for it. The passives alone provide more dps than blood rage and having to get ES nodes.

Did you hear of 500-700k reave on low-life + dagger? Tell me how much you can reach on life without dagger/claw with reave? Maybe 100k, maybe 150k?

So low-life dagger is at least 5x as strong as life + sword/axe/whatever, would you agree?

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LSN wrote:

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terrex wrote:

It certainly does not.

I did a build low life ES nado split shot using blood rage, 6l shavs etc.. I had like 1500+ more es than my life but no acrobatics, less damage nodes because of having to travel further, less sustain because no lgoh / instant life pot.

The same build going life is so much stronger in every way possible. You just need to be aware of certain combinations for huge spike damage and keep your distance. Even though I didn't have blood rage, I used FA instead of crit chance because of easier colors and that made up for it. The passives alone provide more dps than blood rage and having to get ES nodes.

Did you hear of 500-700k reave on low-life + dagger? Tell me how much you can reach on life without dagger/claw with reave? Maybe 100k?

So low-life dagger is 5-7x as strong as life + sword/axe/whatever, would you agree?

My point was that low life applied to every build doesn't make it better. I don't really care to get into it more lol. Low life / es is annoying to me.

Well yes of course if you don't abuse the op mechanics low-life alone (without the 10 auras) doesn't give you the advantage.


You got a point there that if bloodmagic and mass auras gets fixed that low-life might need smth like the current blood rage again.

But the point is nothing is getting fixed since years. Stuff stays overpowered. There are many approaches to fix stuff but nothing seems to ever change.

700k reave vs 100-150k on life stands (just as an example).

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terrex wrote:

It certainly does not.

I did a build low life ES nado split shot using blood rage, 6l shavs etc.. I had like 1500+ more es than my life but no acrobatics, less damage nodes because of having to travel further, less sustain because no lgoh / instant life pot.

The same build going life is so much stronger in every way possible. You just need to be aware of certain combinations for huge spike damage and keep your distance. Even though I didn't have blood rage, I used FA instead of crit chance because of easier colors and that made up for it. The passives alone provide more dps than blood rage and having to get ES nodes.

Life: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1010032

LL ES: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1079693

I didn't want to go 10 aura low life ele since my gf is that support build, but with this build using ice / hatred / ash with phys low life still was much weaker and lower dps.

You are not using an optimal setup. Of course your damage is going to be shit with shavs.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/846000

This is my guildie's build. Nothing in the game can come close to it in strength. There are also wand/reave builds with similar setups using shavs which also are at an elite level.

Life/CI is inferior at endgame than lowlife with shavs.

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Ventor wrote:

You are not using an optimal setup. Of course your damage is going to be shit with shavs.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/846000

This is my guildie's build. Nothing in the game can come close to it in strength. There are also wand/reave builds with similar setups using shavs which also are at an elite level.

Life/CI is inferior at endgame than lowlife with shavs.

People that haven't played with it a lot seem to overhype it. It's not uesful on every buils and you don't need it with every build. I seem to 1 shot rares in 77+ maps with my life character but I guess that is pretty inferior.

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terrex wrote:

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Ventor wrote:

You are not using an optimal setup. Of course your damage is going to be shit with shavs.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/846000

This is my guildie's build. Nothing in the game can come close to it in strength. There are also wand/reave builds with similar setups using shavs which also are at an elite level.

Life/CI is inferior at endgame than lowlife with shavs.

People that haven't played with it a lot seem to overhype it. It's not uesful on every buils and you don't need it with every build. I seem to 1 shot rares in 77+ maps with my life character but I guess that is pretty inferior.

Well then, I guess everyone who mirrors items is completely stupid and doesnt know that life is as strong as you say it is. There's a reason why everyone wants ES items over HP. If people actually mirrored HP gear, then I could probably agree with you since it would be a general consensus that life can be as powerful as ES. But nope, I follow the mirror market religiously and can tell you for a fact that crafting HP gear is an almost complete waste of currency. No one will touch it.

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Ventor wrote:

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terrex wrote:

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Ventor wrote:

You are not using an optimal setup. Of course your damage is going to be shit with shavs.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/846000

This is my guildie's build. Nothing in the game can come close to it in strength. There are also wand/reave builds with similar setups using shavs which also are at an elite level.

Life/CI is inferior at endgame than lowlife with shavs.

People that haven't played with it a lot seem to overhype it. It's not uesful on every buils and you don't need it with every build. I seem to 1 shot rares in 77+ maps with my life character but I guess that is pretty inferior.

Well then, I guess everyone who mirrors items is completely stupid and doesnt know that life is as strong as you say it is. There's a reason why everyone wants ES items over HP. If people actually mirrored HP gear, then I could probably agree with you since it would be a general consensus that life can be as powerful as ES. But nope, I follow the mirror market religiously and can tell you for a fact that crafting HP gear is an almost complete waste of currency. No one will touch it.

People just feel more secure with a higher base pool. There isn't a thing wrong with that. Ruling out other optimal builds is just ignorance.