crit 2h sword build review

Two things...

1. Take the sword crit multiplier nodes. 40% crit multi in two nodes is pretty sweet.

2. I don't think going for the left side of the tree is a sound investment.
Yes, there is 140% crit chance at the end of your walk, but you are spending 24 points after "Constitution" on:
140% crit
35% life
3% life leech
40% damage
Some strength

If you cut it after "Constitution", you could add a lot of points in things you had to skip along the way before.
Like this tree.
Same 35% life
Flask life recovery stuff
60% crit chance at Shadow (total -80%)
+40% crit multi (at "Fatal Blade")
41% damage, 12% attackspeed at "Wrecking Ball"
52% damage, 24% attack speed at "Brutal Blade" (total +36% attack speed, +53% damage)
Some minor mana stuff and 20% elemental damage (for added fire gem)
Some stat changes (less strength, more int, can be considered good or bad)

I think this would overall lead to a more balanced character.
Trade ~5% total crit chance for a massive increase in base damage/speed.

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Peterlerock wrote:

Two things...

1. Take the sword crit multiplier nodes. 40% crit multi in two nodes is pretty sweet.

i think my tree compares favorably with what you have proposed. i did consider the shadow side of the tree approach when i was theorycrafting my 2H sword build.

remember that my goal is to get long IC uptime. That requires venturing to the left side of the tree for increased duration AND endurance charge nodes. It might be that IR + acro is a good strategy too, but i think it fails if you don't run grace + determination which then forces you into blood magic gems.

also too, slashing comeback provides a lot more damage than brutal blade, and if you are going crit the accuracy nodes, although not essential are helpful. you don't want to be forced into getting accuracy on everything, or it will become a pain to put the gear together. i know, i've got those nodes and i'm having trouble holding my accuracy above 85%.

bottom line is that 2H swords are a terrible way to go, but that's precisely why i'm doing it. lol.

Didn't compare it to your tree, only read the OP, sry. ;)

Accuracy should be a non-issue. Get 1-2 items like this:
(or similar jewelry)
...and you're set.
Tree+Sword grant +50% acc, the tree is very dex-heavy... I doubt it would drop too low.

I took the attack speed sword nodes as I thought: "more attack speed, more crits". To counteract the loss of 80% crit chance.

About the IC duration stuff. Sounds legit, but is also a pretty heavy investment. I'd say the Scion buff duration nodes should be enough most of the time.

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It might be that IR + acro is a good strategy too, but i think it fails if you don't run grace + determination which then forces you into blood magic gems.

with reduced mana around 19-20 you still have some mana.with an eleron ring you might be able to run on mana

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If you cut it after "Constitution", you could add a lot of points in things you had to skip along the way before.
Like this tree.

the issue here that loss of crit, from the tree you would have a roughly 27%~ chance to crit too low for it to be worth speccing into at all. at which point we end up right back at axe's.

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jfpforever wrote:

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It might be that IR + acro is a good strategy too, but i think it fails if you don't run grace + determination which then forces you into blood magic gems.

with reduced mana around 19-20 you still have some mana.with an eleron ring you might be able to run on mana

With high "reduced mana" gem and some little gear investment in mana/mana regen/mana leech, you can support a 6L main attack (that's not cyclone) on mana even with two 60% auras.

"

"

If you cut it after "Constitution", you could add a lot of points in things you had to skip along the way before.
Like this tree.

the issue here that loss of crit, from the tree you would have a roughly 27%~ chance to crit too low for it to be worth speccing into at all. at which point we end up right back at axe's.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to go crit 2h sword in the first place.

I'm saying:
-80% crit chance, but +36% attackspeed -> more crits.

And that the venture to the templar crit nodes is not worth it the way the tree was designed in post 1. It may be worth it if you also go for "increased buff duration", but neglecting 60% crit on the right and wandering 24 points to get 140%, that's not how it's done.

And with 27% crit, you are well in the "better than RT" zone.
It is not a reliable crit build, but it is more DpS than with RT, garanteed.

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Peterlerock wrote:

With high "reduced mana" gem and some little gear investment in mana/mana regen/mana leech, you can support a 6L main attack (that's not cyclone) on mana even with two 60% auras.

0.71*120 = 85%
500 mana x 0.15 = 75 mana

i'm pretty sure that doesn't work. if you can do it, i'd like to know how. I'm running hatred and herald of ash and a level 19 RM, and cleave is ok, but flicker strike doesn't work at all.

remember that leech has a 12.5% leech rate cap. that _really_ hurts.

i think revelry is the only way out of that problem and that's 3 more skill points down the drain.

and although i think it's been beat to death. running grace + determination means no hatred. that's unnacceptable if for no other reason that when you crit you'll freeze stuff. so i don't see how IR + acrobatics can work, although it's enormously tempting so that you can get phase acrobatics.

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And with 27% crit, you are well in the "better than RT" zone.
It is not a reliable crit build, but it is more DpS than with RT, garanteed.

i did the math and 25% with about 300% mult is indeed better than RT. because:

0.75 + 0.25*3 = 1.5

That means that your base damage can be quite a bit lower than your "RT" damage. However the guaranteed hit of RT is also valuable, so just breaking even is not good enough. you need to maintain damage that is at least reasonably close to the non-RT damage. so as always with crit, it's about the multiplier.

anyway. i would love it if someone would actually play the "right-side" of the tree build and report back :-)

i'm working on the left side build. gonna level first and then start trying some tough maps and see what happens.


honestly if i had the regrets i'd try the right side build too. i'm really interested to see how it works, or doesn't. right now my biggest problem is that i took the frenzy charge from kraityn, and i really, really wish i had that endurance charge. i could be at >11s uptime on IC with it.

oh well.

edit: sorry. flicker strike does work, but you get 2-3 hits and then you start getting mana leech pauses.
it's a fantastic mobility attack skill, but i think i'm going to abandon it in favor of viper strike or double strike as my single target attack. it's so much darn fun though.

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plasticeyes wrote:

0.71*120 = 85%
500 mana x 0.15 = 75 mana

i'm pretty sure that doesn't work. if you can do it, i'd like to know how.

I stopped using the BM gem a long time ago, in all kinds of melee builds.

Usually I'm working with:
~140 Int, 700 mana (since I don't get gg items anyways, may as well buy the melee rings with mana affixes ;))
1-2% mana leech
A little bit of mana regen (ring affixes, duelist nodes)
Lvl 1 clarity (this is desynch backup, you don't need it, but it helps to refill mana if you hit air)

Most melee attack gems with 4-5 supports can be used off mana without too much of an investment.
It's not working with Mana leech alone, but combined with a bit of regen, it feels fine.

I haven't tried a Flicker Build yet, as this skill makes me go spastic, so I don't know if you can run this on mana. Guess you can. I'm currently working on a "Cyclone off mana" build. ;)

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i did the math and 25% with about 300% mult is indeed better than RT. because:

0.75 + 0.25*3 = 1.5

That's not accurate, you have to include some kind of miss chance.
And you have to consider RT users get a bit of a headstart in the increased damage/attack speed department with their saved points /that were not put into crit/multi).
But still, as long as the result is a good bit >1 and you're not wasting too many points (7-10 should be fine), it's better than RT.

And it feels so satisfying to multistrike occasional triple crits into packs.
"Ba-ba-bamm, you all dead!" ;)
The stable damage of RT doesn't provide these wonderful moments.

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anyway. i would love it if someone would actually play the "right-side" of the tree build and report back :-)

I think in the end, there isn't too much of a difference.

You'll be more tanky because of the IC thing you've got going on, my tree is probably a bit more DpS-y.

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i'm pretty sure that doesn't work. if you can do it, i'd like to know how. I'm running hatred and herald of ash and a level 19 RM, and cleave is ok, but flicker strike doesn't work at all.

i did mention elreon's mod, rings/neck it's possible to have a level 18 or 19 melee skill with zero mana cost(unless your trying to do elemental hit in which case there's still no hope). but even with one ring or neck with the mod running on mana should NOT be an issue.

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and although i think it's been beat to death. running grace + determination means no hatred

and this is precisely why i think speccing reduced mana reservation costs are slowly beginning to outpace speccing raw damage. hatred and hoa are excellent examples of this as they are multiplier's and not additive. i could easily see a derivative of the build in question with nothing but crit and aura node's, somewhat obviously with bloodmagic.

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you have to consider RT users get a bit of a headstart in the increased damage/attack speed department with their saved points /that were not put into crit/multi).

this is particularly why i aimed for so much crit. it's a lot easier to get crit from the tree than crit bonus, and much easier to get crit bonus outside the tree than crit.

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jfpforever wrote:

i did mention elreon's mod, rings/neck it's possible to have a level 18 or 19 melee skill with zero mana cost(unless your trying to do elemental hit in which case there's still no hope). but even with one ring or neck with the mod running on mana should NOT be an issue.

Getting a good Elreon ring can be a pain in the ass.

"

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you have to consider RT users get a bit of a headstart in the increased damage/attack speed department with their saved points /that were not put into crit/multi).

this is particularly why i aimed for so much crit. it's a lot easier to get crit from the tree than crit bonus, and much easier to get crit bonus outside the tree than crit.

Don't get what you mean. Crit on gear or in the tree does the same. Or do you mean crit multiplier with "crit bonus"?

Regardless of what build we choose, getting enough Crit Multi will be an issue.

So we're gonna need this:




With that in mind, I think Permanent Immortal Call is probably a safer choice for our defensive method of choice, even if it requires significant tree investment.