Trap, Mine, Totem Specialization passive nodes
I'd like to see nodes that support specialization - optionally getting better at one thing at the price of getting worse in everything else.
This is just the basic idea, some added flavor would be needed so these are not all the same. Totem Specialization ~20% more totem damage ~40% less non-totem damage ~10% more totem attack and cast speed Trap Specialization ~20% more Trap damage ~40% less non-Trap damage ~30% increased trap recharge rate ~30% increased allowed traps Mine Specialization ~20% more Mine damage ~40% less non-Mine damage ~20% increased mine recharge rate ~40% increased allowed mines Cold Heart ~20% more Cold damage ~40% less non-Cold damage ~ -5 max fire resists Lightning Instability ~25% higher max Lightning damage roll (more variable) ~25% lower min Lightning damage roll (more variable, but really... low rolls might as well be 0) ~40% less non-Lightning damage Hybrid Focus ~20% less damage for your largest damage class ~40% more damage for your non-largest damage class ... For the Hybrid Focus, imagine you deal 50% Fire and 50% cold. You'd net 40% + 68.5% = 110%. If you had 3 damage types 34% + 33% + 33% (say fire/cold/phys), you'd net 27.2 + 46.2 + 46.2 = 119.62%. The more sources and the more balanced the better the payout... But this is the kind of thing that would spark people's imaginations... 5 sources near equal (21%,20%,20%,20%,19%) becomes 16.8% + 28% + 28% + 28% + 26.6% = 127.4%. Outlined above is more like keystone, but the idea is that simpler nodes could also exist. Important to this idea is build diversity. This would encourage a totem caster who doesn't use traps, or a trap user that doesn't use totems or etc. However, a totem user that uses traps or self casts might _not_ want these nodes. Last edited by DragonsProphecy on Sep 22, 2014, 6:11:31 PM
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Does this make any sense though? If i understand this right then people would just not use the skills they took a hit with anyways. Since when do totem users also use traps? You would also kill diversity rather than expand it as you would take away using traps and totems together, thats 1 less build.
The specific nodes are fine atm, i like em a lot, the traps/mines and totem nodes are not that far apart to not take them all. |
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" Totems have a 50% damage nerf and 30% cast speed nerf, because any self caster could benefit well by dropping a totem and then self casting... GGG balanced around a combo. Totem users often grab Ancestral Bond. This gives a second totem, but removes self cast damage - closing one combo. However, Ancestral Bond does nothing to traps. If you are a witch with spell damage nodes, then you already have great Totem and trap synergy started. Elemental nodes also synergize well. Just drop two totems and then some traps. Rinse and Repeat. GGG has to balance builds against these synergies and combos. Specialization nodes would allow a truly focused individual to be slightly better in that focus without leaving open concerns of leaving open an op synergy/combo mixed build. If you want to play the combo, then you wouldn't get the specialization nodes. Well designed specialization nodes could improve build diversity. (While designing nodes intended for specialization, you can also design nodes intended for combination friendly builds also.) |
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" Makes no sense to balance "against" them. It reduces the amount of builds players can have. I got a totem char. I got a trap char. What you are saying is that i shouldnt be allowed to have a totem char with the mine nodes and totem nodes combined. 1 build less to play then, great, i can just uninstall the game then, because what good is a arpg without making lots of chars to play with and all chars should be prefferably different. |
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There may be some merit to adding some more one thing less another, but you really missed the mark with the totem example. I am playing my first dual totem build right now. I don't use traps. So it would be a free 20% more damage for a build like mine. It also adds some complexity that I'm not sure is beneficial.
I think it might be better if it was more like Elemental Equilibrium. Give a bonus to one element at the expense of all other elements. Say 20% more fire damage but 20% less Lightning, Cold, and Physical damage. Have it calculate before conversions so there'd be little point for builds with lots of conversions like Avatar of Fire and maybe not too powerful for physical builds using Added Fire to get lots of extra damage. Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com | |
There are a few problems:
1. We don't need totem DPS buffs. Your Totem Spec does this. 2. We don't need trap DPS buffs. Your Trap Spec does this. 3. We don't need mine DPS buffs. Your Mine Spec does this. What we could use: 1. A keystone behind Ancestral Bond that causes all skills to be supported by an equally leveled totem. A level 5 Tornado Shot would get a level 5 Ranged Attack Totem, and a level 21 Incinerate would get a level 21 Spell Totem. This would make builds that use totems "true totem" builds. It would also make the Soul Mantle unique more valuable. 2. We could use a keystone that does the same for traps/mines, as above. GGG favors decision making, and this would make players determine whether they want to go pure totems, traps/mines, or try to mix them. This would also change the decision on whether they want a 20/23 gem to get the quality, use a 21/20 gem to get a free 21 totem, or use either one and simply use their own proper totem support to get quality on it. | |
" That sounds to me to be pretty much like what I'm asking for... I'm applying the concept to both damage types and skill mechanics. A good example is the Shadow fire/cold/lightning specialization nodes which are 8+12+8 or 28/3 = only 9.33%... while the shadow generic nodes are 16 + 12 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 20 / 6 = 14.6%... I don't want to complain about the 12% with the 5% status effect, but why surround it with 8%'s? Is that a trap? I think people would expect a node which does less (only fire) to be more efficient, not less... You pretty much have to travel around the tree for life (or es), so travel cost can become less of a concern if you were also already traveling for something else... so why would you not include the witch start? And why would you not include the shadow start? I'm not saying that build's will or should take the 10's nodes - as at some point cast speed and crit become also valuable, but I am saying that there may be no real need to specialize... good generic spell damage nodes, good generic ele damage nodes (or phys), mixed with cast speed and crit can leave a character ready to use just about any skill at limited consequences... If you use totems and no traps, you probably have lower damage than someone who uses both; which is fine, perhaps you curse or cast defensive summons, or even just chill. You don't necessarily need any trap nodes to use traps. Plenty of people also self cast without dropping a totem, and they too might be doing less dps than what they could in theory. |
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" That would be cool. For totems, we have 50% less damage, 30% less cast speed, and a general socket tax. Ancestral bond removes the 50% less damage, and the unique chest can give a 3rd totem (at a cost), but something to remove the socket tax would be a big deal. I'm not sure if everyone is getting everything I'm saying. Look at the 8+8+8+14% totem nodes... they average only 9.5%, and I'd probably be moving to get them. Yet there are such great other nodes (Spell, Ele, Phys, Projectile) in the Witch and Shaddow area... which also benefit mines/traps, and thus are more useful too. I'd probably only really care to chase Totemic mastery if I was doing the curse when totems die chest or otherwise wanted to buff my totem defenses, as the offense here isn't that efficient. But I'm not even playing a Totem build this league. I have a self caster and a bow user. What I'm saying is that some nodes and clusters are nearly too good and too useful to nearly everyone... If a cluster is amazing for a caster, if a cluster is amazing for a trap user, if a cluster is amazing for fire damage, etc, etc... If it's nearly a given for 50% of intelligent totem,caster,trap builds... that seems high. Last edited by DragonsProphecy on Sep 23, 2014, 4:54:27 PM
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I agree that the totem damage nodes are pretty worthless. I skipped them all in favor of bigger damage nodes that weren't totem specific.
Maybe Spell Totem shouldn't be a support gem at all. Maybe it should somehow be a keystone like Ancestral Bond (maybe even behind AB). Since you can't do any damage with self cast spells anyway, have it just turn all your spells into totems with whatever damage penalty needed. Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN> Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com Last edited by mark1030 on Sep 23, 2014, 5:16:27 PM
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" Um, what? Please no. Worthless totem nodes? Well, for you maybe, i took all of them. Yeah, kill build diversity so you guys can have your 3 working high dps builds. |
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