Personally, I'm happy that they have left Kaoms the way that it is in the current state of the game. If you want to do the math in terms of price, a 6L Belly of the beast costs more than a kaoms, seeing as you don't have any reason to bother with socketing and fusing it, while still providing 5 top flat life rolls in a single chest AND 20%~40% increased fire damage. Currently in beyond, you can get a kaom's for around 8~10 exalts, while a 6L belly would cost you close to 20 ex.
Point being, Kaoms should not always be the BiS for a life based character, and yet it still is a pretty amazing piece to have for a life/fire damage based build. And previously before this patch, nothing even came close to comparing to it.
I disagree with this:
1) Belly of the Beast is about 10000x more common than Kaoms
2) Any sockets and links on BotB make it more useful than Kaoms. You don't need 6L.
The only case where Kaoms would be superior to BotB right now is if you had a build with literally no use for any sockets/links on a chest and fire damage was a must have stat even more than life.
Except people still use Kaoms (Legacy Version) and the new version over Belly of The Beast all the time. Why ? Because the math.
Personally, I'm happy that they have left Kaoms the way that it is in the current state of the game. If you want to do the math in terms of price, a 6L Belly of the beast costs more than a kaoms, seeing as you don't have any reason to bother with socketing and fusing it, while still providing 5 top flat life rolls in a single chest AND 20%~40% increased fire damage. Currently in beyond, you can get a kaom's for around 8~10 exalts, while a 6L belly would cost you close to 20 ex.
Point being, Kaoms should not always be the BiS for a life based character, and yet it still is a pretty amazing piece to have for a life/fire damage based build. And previously before this patch, nothing even came close to comparing to it.
I disagree with this:
1) Belly of the Beast is about 10000x more common than Kaoms
2) Any sockets and links on BotB make it more useful than Kaoms. You don't need 6L.
The only case where Kaoms would be superior to BotB right now is if you had a build with literally no use for any sockets/links on a chest and fire damage was a must have stat even more than life.
Except people still use Kaoms (Legacy Version) and the new version over Belly of The Beast all the time. Why ? Because the math.
TL;DR - Belly of The Beast was Buffed, Kaoms is still incredible.
what the fuck legacy version,
we are talking about non legacy version, not everyone faps in standard league.
and dont post a link showing calculations from before the patch, the difference between a non-legacy kaom and belly of the best is not as great as before thanks to lower %increased health from tree.
dont forget belly provides much more defense, resist and life recovery AND links. you only need 5L to rollover endgame
the only thing kaom provide is an additional 1k plus health over belly. and shitty increased fire.
you are using a kaom you are forced to use a 2H or you have no 6 link. the build that can get away with no 6L is RF, and even that is a no-no now that cyclone curse on hit is available.
what the fuck legacy version,
we are talking about non legacy version, not everyone faps in standard league.
and dont post a link showing calculations from before the patch, the difference between a non-legacy kaom and belly of the best is not as great as before thanks to lower %increased health from tree.
dont forget belly provides much more defense, resist and life recovery AND links. you only need 5L to rollover endgame
the only thing kaom provide is an additional 1k plus health over belly. and shitty increased fire.
you are using a kaom you are forced to use a 2H or you have no 6 link. the build that can get away with no 6L is RF, and even that is a no-no now that cyclone curse on hit is available.
Pretty obvious you didnt read either of those when they show the comparison of both the current and legacy version next to Belly of The Beast.
Guess you dont understand how formulas work either.
Spoiler
"Belly of the Beast VS Current Generation Kaom's Heart
All of these calculations assume NO OTHER GEAR
50 Base Life, 14 Strength (Lowest starting value), 12 HP per level.
(50 + (12 x LEVEL) + (STRENGTH / 2) + (Life from GEAR)) * (100% + LIFE%)
BASE VALUE: (50 + (12 x 99) + (14 / 2) + (0)) * (100% + 0%) = 1245
Assuming you take NO Life passives on tree, and no Oak Reward, Level 100:
CONCLUSION: From my perspective, this is a big buff to Belly of the Beast. Not only is it many levels lower in requirement, it has links, comes with %All Res, and increased Life Flask recovery, which might be worth even more, if we get bigger flasks. Like that wasnt enough, it is much more common than a Kaoms, and the price (currently) is below 1/30 the price of a Kaoms. ON TOP OF THAT, all of these calculations are done assuming no flat life from tree, and no flat life on any other gear (which isn't that realistic, assuming its a life build). Which means, Belly of the Beast closes the gap further, the more life you have on gear.
Poor mans Kaoms? Yes. Potentially rich mans Kaoms too? Yes."
Spoiler
Gotta calculate how much base life you have first. So, you always have 50 life at level 1, plus 8 life per level. Let's say you're level 71.
8 x 70 + 50 = 610 Life.
Now, add 1 life for every 2 Strength. Let's say you're over in the Marauder side of the tree and you get 300 Str, that's 150 life. We're at 760 life now.
Next, add up the life on your gear. Maybe you've got 75 life each on your gloves, helm, boots, shield, belt, and amulet. That's another 450 life from gear, running total is 1,210.
Finally, any flat life from the tree or the bandit quests should be counted. Maybe you've got 40 from Oak and a pair of 30 flat life nodes in the tree. Now you're at 1,310 base life.
40% of 1,310 is 524 Life. "Aha!" you say, "That's better than the 500 from Kaom's!" Not so fast, buddy.
See, Kaom's +500 Life is also multiplied by all the % increased life nodes you have in the tree. A good build often has 150 to 200% increased life from the tree, so that +500 is actually getting you 1500 to 2000 final max HP.
TL;DR Kaom's Heart will provide about 3 to 4 times as much final max HP as Belly of the Beast on your average life-based build with decent gear.
This is an example of where you can simply plug in the new life per level to get an idea of where it will sit.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Sep 18, 2014, 7:37:03 PM
what the fuck legacy version,
we are talking about non legacy version, not everyone faps in standard league.
and dont post a link showing calculations from before the patch, the difference between a non-legacy kaom and belly of the best is not as great as before thanks to lower %increased health from tree.
dont forget belly provides much more defense, resist and life recovery AND links. you only need 5L to rollover endgame
the only thing kaom provide is an additional 1k plus health over belly. and shitty increased fire.
you are using a kaom you are forced to use a 2H or you have no 6 link. the build that can get away with no 6L is RF, and even that is a no-no now that cyclone curse on hit is available.
Pretty obvious you didnt read either of those when they show the comparison of both the current and legacy version next to Belly of The Beast.
Guess you dont understand how formulas work either.
Spoiler
"Belly of the Beast VS Current Generation Kaom's Heart
All of these calculations assume NO OTHER GEAR
50 Base Life, 14 Strength (Lowest starting value), 12 HP per level.
(50 + (12 x LEVEL) + (STRENGTH / 2) + (Life from GEAR)) * (100% + LIFE%)
BASE VALUE: (50 + (12 x 99) + (14 / 2) + (0)) * (100% + 0%) = 1245
Assuming you take NO Life passives on tree, and no Oak Reward, Level 100:
CONCLUSION: From my perspective, this is a big buff to Belly of the Beast. Not only is it many levels lower in requirement, it has links, comes with %All Res, and increased Life Flask recovery, which might be worth even more, if we get bigger flasks. Like that wasnt enough, it is much more common than a Kaoms, and the price (currently) is below 1/30 the price of a Kaoms. ON TOP OF THAT, all of these calculations are done assuming no flat life from tree, and no flat life on any other gear (which isn't that realistic, assuming its a life build). Which means, Belly of the Beast closes the gap further, the more life you have on gear.
Poor mans Kaoms? Yes. Potentially rich mans Kaoms too? Yes."
Spoiler
Gotta calculate how much base life you have first. So, you always have 50 life at level 1, plus 8 life per level. Let's say you're level 71.
8 x 70 + 50 = 610 Life.
Now, add 1 life for every 2 Strength. Let's say you're over in the Marauder side of the tree and you get 300 Str, that's 150 life. We're at 760 life now.
Next, add up the life on your gear. Maybe you've got 75 life each on your gloves, helm, boots, shield, belt, and amulet. That's another 450 life from gear, running total is 1,210.
Finally, any flat life from the tree or the bandit quests should be counted. Maybe you've got 40 from Oak and a pair of 30 flat life nodes in the tree. Now you're at 1,310 base life.
40% of 1,310 is 524 Life. "Aha!" you say, "That's better than the 500 from Kaom's!" Not so fast, buddy.
See, Kaom's +500 Life is also multiplied by all the % increased life nodes you have in the tree. A good build often has 150 to 200% increased life from the tree, so that +500 is actually getting you 1500 to 2000 final max HP.
TL;DR Kaom's Heart will provide about 3 to 4 times as much final max HP as Belly of the Beast on your average life-based build with decent gear.
This is an example of where you can simply plug in the new life per level to get an idea of where it will sit.
Cheers for copying it here for us non-reddit people. Totally agree though, belly of the beast is definitely powerful, but koams is not terrible. What makes it weak is that you either have to be bow or 2her to get 6l, and from VD's uber atziri thread its fairly clear that 2hers are relatively weak
what the fuck legacy version,
we are talking about non legacy version, not everyone faps in standard league.
and dont post a link showing calculations from before the patch, the difference between a non-legacy kaom and belly of the best is not as great as before thanks to lower %increased health from tree.
dont forget belly provides much more defense, resist and life recovery AND links. you only need 5L to rollover endgame
the only thing kaom provide is an additional 1k plus health over belly. and shitty increased fire.
you are using a kaom you are forced to use a 2H or you have no 6 link. the build that can get away with no 6L is RF, and even that is a no-no now that cyclone curse on hit is available.
Pretty obvious you didnt read either of those when they show the comparison of both the current and legacy version next to Belly of The Beast.
Guess you dont understand how formulas work either.
Spoiler
"Belly of the Beast VS Current Generation Kaom's Heart
All of these calculations assume NO OTHER GEAR
50 Base Life, 14 Strength (Lowest starting value), 12 HP per level.
(50 + (12 x LEVEL) + (STRENGTH / 2) + (Life from GEAR)) * (100% + LIFE%)
BASE VALUE: (50 + (12 x 99) + (14 / 2) + (0)) * (100% + 0%) = 1245
Assuming you take NO Life passives on tree, and no Oak Reward, Level 100:
CONCLUSION: From my perspective, this is a big buff to Belly of the Beast. Not only is it many levels lower in requirement, it has links, comes with %All Res, and increased Life Flask recovery, which might be worth even more, if we get bigger flasks. Like that wasnt enough, it is much more common than a Kaoms, and the price (currently) is below 1/30 the price of a Kaoms. ON TOP OF THAT, all of these calculations are done assuming no flat life from tree, and no flat life on any other gear (which isn't that realistic, assuming its a life build). Which means, Belly of the Beast closes the gap further, the more life you have on gear.
Poor mans Kaoms? Yes. Potentially rich mans Kaoms too? Yes."
Spoiler
Gotta calculate how much base life you have first. So, you always have 50 life at level 1, plus 8 life per level. Let's say you're level 71.
8 x 70 + 50 = 610 Life.
Now, add 1 life for every 2 Strength. Let's say you're over in the Marauder side of the tree and you get 300 Str, that's 150 life. We're at 760 life now.
Next, add up the life on your gear. Maybe you've got 75 life each on your gloves, helm, boots, shield, belt, and amulet. That's another 450 life from gear, running total is 1,210.
Finally, any flat life from the tree or the bandit quests should be counted. Maybe you've got 40 from Oak and a pair of 30 flat life nodes in the tree. Now you're at 1,310 base life.
40% of 1,310 is 524 Life. "Aha!" you say, "That's better than the 500 from Kaom's!" Not so fast, buddy.
See, Kaom's +500 Life is also multiplied by all the % increased life nodes you have in the tree. A good build often has 150 to 200% increased life from the tree, so that +500 is actually getting you 1500 to 2000 final max HP.
TL;DR Kaom's Heart will provide about 3 to 4 times as much final max HP as Belly of the Beast on your average life-based build with decent gear.
This is an example of where you can simply plug in the new life per level to get an idea of where it will sit.
the 1st example clearly shows belly of the best has now close the gap between kaom as of 1.2
2nd example is trash and jsut shows you lift the text without seeing
>8 base life per level
>8
> lifting outdated text
obv u didnt even read it and just lift to assume MUH kaom still OP.
same goes for real_wolf who just go "yes man"
kaom is NOT worth wasting a 6L slot over unless u are using a 2H. and even that is very questionable unless u are a fire-based build.
what the fuck legacy version,
we are talking about non legacy version, not everyone faps in standard league.
and dont post a link showing calculations from before the patch, the difference between a non-legacy kaom and belly of the best is not as great as before thanks to lower %increased health from tree.
dont forget belly provides much more defense, resist and life recovery AND links. you only need 5L to rollover endgame
the only thing kaom provide is an additional 1k plus health over belly. and shitty increased fire.
you are using a kaom you are forced to use a 2H or you have no 6 link. the build that can get away with no 6L is RF, and even that is a no-no now that cyclone curse on hit is available.
Pretty obvious you didnt read either of those when they show the comparison of both the current and legacy version next to Belly of The Beast.
Guess you dont understand how formulas work either.
Spoiler
"Belly of the Beast VS Current Generation Kaom's Heart
All of these calculations assume NO OTHER GEAR
50 Base Life, 14 Strength (Lowest starting value), 12 HP per level.
(50 + (12 x LEVEL) + (STRENGTH / 2) + (Life from GEAR)) * (100% + LIFE%)
BASE VALUE: (50 + (12 x 99) + (14 / 2) + (0)) * (100% + 0%) = 1245
Assuming you take NO Life passives on tree, and no Oak Reward, Level 100:
CONCLUSION: From my perspective, this is a big buff to Belly of the Beast. Not only is it many levels lower in requirement, it has links, comes with %All Res, and increased Life Flask recovery, which might be worth even more, if we get bigger flasks. Like that wasnt enough, it is much more common than a Kaoms, and the price (currently) is below 1/30 the price of a Kaoms. ON TOP OF THAT, all of these calculations are done assuming no flat life from tree, and no flat life on any other gear (which isn't that realistic, assuming its a life build). Which means, Belly of the Beast closes the gap further, the more life you have on gear.
Poor mans Kaoms? Yes. Potentially rich mans Kaoms too? Yes."
Spoiler
Gotta calculate how much base life you have first. So, you always have 50 life at level 1, plus 8 life per level. Let's say you're level 71.
8 x 70 + 50 = 610 Life.
Now, add 1 life for every 2 Strength. Let's say you're over in the Marauder side of the tree and you get 300 Str, that's 150 life. We're at 760 life now.
Next, add up the life on your gear. Maybe you've got 75 life each on your gloves, helm, boots, shield, belt, and amulet. That's another 450 life from gear, running total is 1,210.
Finally, any flat life from the tree or the bandit quests should be counted. Maybe you've got 40 from Oak and a pair of 30 flat life nodes in the tree. Now you're at 1,310 base life.
40% of 1,310 is 524 Life. "Aha!" you say, "That's better than the 500 from Kaom's!" Not so fast, buddy.
See, Kaom's +500 Life is also multiplied by all the % increased life nodes you have in the tree. A good build often has 150 to 200% increased life from the tree, so that +500 is actually getting you 1500 to 2000 final max HP.
TL;DR Kaom's Heart will provide about 3 to 4 times as much final max HP as Belly of the Beast on your average life-based build with decent gear.
This is an example of where you can simply plug in the new life per level to get an idea of where it will sit.
the 1st example clearly shows belly of the best has now close the gap between kaom as of 1.2
2nd example is trash and jsut shows you lift the text without seeing
>8 base life per level
>8
> lifting outdated text
obv u didnt even read it and just lift to assume MUH kaom still OP.
same goes for real_wolf who just go "yes man"
kaom is NOT worth wasting a 6L slot over unless u are using a 2H. and even that is very questionable unless u are a fire-based build.
Cant stop laughing after seeing your guild name is "Math of Exile".
Nice.
You still dont understand the formulas being used. Come back and respond when you actually understand why people are still wearing Kaoms over Belly of The Beast in endgame.
By the way, he isnt "Yes manning" anything, he more than likely understands why i posted those links and the content presented in them.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Sep 18, 2014, 10:19:15 PM
resorting to ad hominem after running out of arguments to show kaom is not as good as before. simply just copy pasting some formula found in reddit without even noticing one uses outdated 8 base life per level as a variable.
you must be a fun guy.
the fact is NON-LEGACY kaom is not worth it unless im
1) RF 2)searing touch 3) burn arrow prolif 4)the mystical 2hander that hardly exist thanks to 1hdagger+shield=OP who would rather get a legacy kaom instead which is only in std
and even (1) and (2) might prefer belly or carcass jack instead.
EDIT: editing the post to remove insults when i call you out for ad hominem. EVEN WOW. ok im ignoring you.
resorting to ad hominem after running out of arguments to show kaom is not as good as before. simply just copy pasting some formula found in reddit without even noticing one uses outdated 8 base life per level as a variable.
you must be a fun guy.
the fact is NON-LEGACY kaom is not worth it unless im
1) RF 2)searing touch 3) burn arrow prolif 4)the mystical 2hander that hardly exist thanks to 1hdagger+shield=OP who would rather get a legacy kaom instead which is only in std
and even (1) and (2) might prefer belly or carcass jack instead.
Its not an attack, i just find it funny how youre in a guild called "Math of Exile" but dont understand anything that ive posted. Nor do you even want to do the math for yourself. Nice try though, trying to say im attacking you because you dont understand anything thats being said to you. My argument still stands because math, while yours is completely basless and opinionated.
"Formula", do you understand what that is ? No ?
"Definition of Formula. Formula. Numbers and symbols that show how to work something out. A special type of equation that shows the relationship between different variables."
If you did youd understand you could plug in 12 life into the example to get a rough estimate, which is why i said the other guys was better in the first place. That guys was just an example, not exactly based on the actual formula.
"Facts", your so called "Fact" is nothing more than a baseless opinion.
Also, lol, my post wasnt edited at all, nice try though. That was edited way before you responded and the timer shows it ;D
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Sep 18, 2014, 10:35:13 PM
resorting to ad hominem after running out of arguments to show kaom is not as good as before. simply just copy pasting some formula found in reddit without even noticing one uses outdated 8 base life per level as a variable.
you must be a fun guy.
the fact is NON-LEGACY kaom is not worth it unless im
1) RF 2)searing touch 3) burn arrow prolif 4)the mystical 2hander that hardly exist thanks to 1hdagger+shield=OP who would rather get a legacy kaom instead which is only in std
and even (1) and (2) might prefer belly or carcass jack instead.
Its not an attack, i just find it funny how youre in a guild called "Math of Exile" but dont understand anything that ive posted.
"Formula", do you understand what that is ? No ?
"Definition of Formula. Formula. Numbers and symbols that show how to work something out. A special type of equation that shows the relationship between different variables."
If you did youd understand you could plug in 12 life into the example to get a rough estimate, which is why i said the other guys was better in the first place. That guys was just an example, not exactly based on the actual formula.
"Facts", your so called "Fact" is nothing more than a baseless opinion.
blah blah definitions and semantics you are just copy pasting from internet dictionary LMAO, not even touching the main topic. you must be running out of steam already. do go on.
resorting to ad hominem after running out of arguments to show kaom is not as good as before. simply just copy pasting some formula found in reddit without even noticing one uses outdated 8 base life per level as a variable.
you must be a fun guy.
the fact is NON-LEGACY kaom is not worth it unless im
1) RF 2)searing touch 3) burn arrow prolif 4)the mystical 2hander that hardly exist thanks to 1hdagger+shield=OP who would rather get a legacy kaom instead which is only in std
and even (1) and (2) might prefer belly or carcass jack instead.
Its not an attack, i just find it funny how youre in a guild called "Math of Exile" but dont understand anything that ive posted.
"Formula", do you understand what that is ? No ?
"Definition of Formula. Formula. Numbers and symbols that show how to work something out. A special type of equation that shows the relationship between different variables."
If you did youd understand you could plug in 12 life into the example to get a rough estimate, which is why i said the other guys was better in the first place. That guys was just an example, not exactly based on the actual formula.
"Facts", your so called "Fact" is nothing more than a baseless opinion.
blah blah definitions and semantics you are just copy pasting from internet dictionary LMAO, not even touching the main topic. you must be running out of steam already. do go on.
Still waiting for you to provide proof of your claims, which you still havent done. All youve done is say im wrong and i find it quite hilarious.
You realize the reason why i gave you the text book definition is soo you could understand it right ?
Also what happened to ignoring me, buddy ?
Usually people just resort to that kind of threat when theyre wrong, which you are.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
