The sad state that is Armor

"
B34C0N wrote:
<snip>

Giving more survival it's not fun, i mean, we are supposed to die (eventually, but die). Also, there are ways of making this less "risky". Just think about it. The solutions are already in-game. Armor has nothing to do with this.


The fact that armor has nothing to do with making dying less risky is part of the problem that this thread exists. People WANT armor to help people stop dying, and currently, it doesn't.

And I don't know about you, but while being immune to everything isn't fun - but being unable to level anymore because X Monster oneshots you with a lucky crit and knowing there's fuck all you can do about that is less fun.
"If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning
Last edited by TikoXi on Oct 9, 2014, 10:54:41 AM
"
TikoXi wrote:
"
B34C0N wrote:
<snip>

Giving more survival it's not fun, i mean, we are supposed to die (eventually, but die). Also, there are ways of making this less "risky". Just think about it. The solutions are already in-game. Armor has nothing to do with this.


The fact that armor has nothing to do with making dying less risky is part of the problem that this thread exists. People WANT armor to help people stop dying, and currently, it doesn't.

And I don't know about you, but while being immune to everything isn't fun - but being unable to level anymore because X Monster oneshots you with a lucky crit and knowing there's fuck all you can do about that is less fun.



It is not supposed to be "only-armor-gear" to survive, i mean, i currently have an armor gem on one of my sockets, really:



There are other stuff that helps you get somewhat tanky, for at least not die against 1 blow or 2. Also, you gotta give up on some dps to get more resists. The system is not perfect, i know, but, Armor is not the root problem.

Edit: Also, having a premade team helps a lot, not being you the guy who tank stuff. That's the only advice i can give.
Last edited by B34C0N on Oct 9, 2014, 12:32:31 PM
"
Nurvus wrote:
"
If you're going to link armour and elemental resistance, you might as well simply give more elemental resistances to armour nodes and/or make some elemental resistance +%armour mods, rather than trying some potentially game-breaking method.


What game-breaking? Are you dense?

Assuming you have 75% all resists...
If you have 50% Evasion, 30% Dodge and 20% Spell Dodge, that means you take 0.7*0.5*0.25=0,0875 times (~0,9%) the average damage from elemental attacks, instead of 0.25 times (25%).
Non-attack Spells will deal 0.25*0.8=0.2 (20%) instead of 0.25 times (20%).

Energy Shield works fully against elemental damage.

If you have armor? Jack shit. Elemental damage just laughs on your face, and heavy physical hits will still melt you.

Adding resistance nodes doesn't do anything to solve armor's problem - it just gets you to elemental resist cap sooner...
Causing a small percentage (10% is hypotetical) of your armor to affect elemental damage will be almost like Spell Dodge for Evasion, but since armor is less effective the bigger the incoming damage, strong elemental hits will still have nearly full effect.

Some Math.
Damage Reduction Factor = Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) )
Received Damage Formula = Damage * (1-Damage Reduction Factor)

Armor = 1200
Incoming Physical hits = 200 and 1000
Resistances = 75% (resistances apply first)
Incoming Elemental hits = 800 and 4000 (elemental damage becomes proportionally higher as you advance in the game because you are eventually EXPECTED to reach the resist cap)

Currently (0% of your armor works against Elemental damage):
Physical damage taken vs 200 = 134 (33% reduction)
Physical damage taken vs 1000 = 910 (9% reduction)
Elemental damage taken vs 800 = 200 (75% resistances, 0% reduction)
Elemental damage taken vs 4000 = 1000 (75% resistances, 0% reduction)
Assuming 10% of your armor works against Elemental damage):
Elemental damage taken vs 800 = 190 (75% resistances, 5% reduction)
Elemental damage taken vs 4000 = 990 (75% resistances, 1% reduction)
What if 50% of your armor works against Elemental damage?
Elemental damage taken vs 800 = 160 (75% resistances, 20% reduction)
Elemental damage taken vs 4000 = 950 (75% resistances, 5% reduction)

Totally overpowered, right?

Note: On the off-chance using Granite Flask + Resist Flask might become an OP combo for elemental damage mitigation, you can make Granite Flask also apply a penalty to all resist caps (somewhere between 5% and 10%).
Agreed, in fact its better than my previous post. Keep posting for ggg change on current mechanics.
"
B34C0N wrote:
"
If you're going to link armour and elemental resistance, you might as well simply give more elemental resistances to armour nodes and/or make some elemental resistance +%armour mods, rather than trying some potentially game-breaking method.


lol.

Everything suggested in this thread is a potential game-breaking method. This thread can also be read like: "I don't want to ever die while playing poe" which is the same as: "i just want to minimize the risk of taking a bad call and die" wich also may be like: "i want to stomp hard on the A.I. with raw stats".

Giving more survival it's not fun, i mean, we are supposed to die (eventually, but die). Also, there are ways of making this less "risky". Just think about it. The solutions are already in-game. Armor has nothing to do with this.


you aren't really adding anything to the convo, bro.

you have provided zero evidence/new ideas/proof of your claims other than "the solutions are in the game".

Don't need clueless trollerinos posting here.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
MSI RX 2080
Samsung 980 Pro SSD
32GB GSkill Trident-Z
"
Nurvus wrote:
Stuff.


Can't you possibly imagine having +1% or +2% max elemental resistance on several armour nodes? Armour doesn't have to mitigate elemental damage itself, as long as armour builds get to have the necessary solutions.
"
"
Nurvus wrote:
Stuff.


Can't you possibly imagine having +1% or +2% max elemental resistance on several armour nodes? Armour doesn't have to mitigate elemental damage itself, as long as armour builds get to have the necessary solutions.


I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't work (see below).
Furthermore, I don't understand why people insist on using passives to fix stuff.
1 - Gems and Passives are meant to add to gameplay - not work as "fixes" or sugarcoat poorly designed mechanics. Mechanics need to make sense on their own.
2 - Anyone could grab those +X% max res nodes even if they don't use Armor... Again it doesn't do anything to change armor comparing to other types of defense.
3 - What I'm suggesting is very straightforward and works in line with armor's current mechanics.
Knowing Armor works at X% efficiency vs elemental damage is no different from knowing that Energy Shield has a 6 second delay and takes 3 seconds to fill from 0% to 100%, or understanding how Entropy works.
4 - It's not just elemental damage, as Armor suffers against high physical hits, usually because they're crits.
While it's okay to make armor less effective than Evasion vs high hits, crits just crap on armor way too hard.
Armor needs to suffer less against crits.
5 - there's no reason for Armor to be the ONLY defense type that has ZERO effectiveness against elemental damage.
Forum Warrior - Why are you creating a thread about this subject? Use Search!
Also Forum Warrior - Nice necro.
Last edited by Nurvus on Oct 9, 2014, 7:48:55 PM
Updated main post with another suggestion I made on reddit recently

"
4: Fundamentally changing the way weapons/melee skills work.

For example, I mentioned in a reddit thread the other day the idea of building unique defenses INTO certain items. For MACES,SWORDS, and AXES only, you would offer various forms of damage mitigation/prevention/offloading.

For swords, I know it has been suggested before of introducing a unique "parry" mechanic outside of blocking. I imagine it would be like block but with no recovery time (and a lower max %). The % to parry could be based off of attack speed, which would synergize with swords.

For Maces, perhaps a damage reduction or shield. I think a cool mechanic would be to offer a short duration damage-absorbtion buff whenever you stun an enemy. This would make some builds actually go for those stun nodes.

For axes, I would imagine a straight %HP increase.

If you wanted a more interesting mechanic, maybe you could give axes a "Blood lust" mechanic, where ~15-20% of attacks leech 100% of the damage back instantly. Obviously this could be tuned, but something like that.

Another option would be to give Axes a unique "bleed" mechanic or bleed supporting effect, where bleeding enemies all deal 25% less damage or something.


Now I know I only covered maces/swords/axes, but I think GGG could build off of the Stave block effect. For daggers, I think daggers are already in a great spot, with the nodes so close to acrobatics etc. If you really wanted to, you could give daggers an evasion buff mechanic, but like I said, I think dagger builds are fine.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
MSI RX 2080
Samsung 980 Pro SSD
32GB GSkill Trident-Z
"
Eep wrote:
"
B34C0N wrote:
"
If you're going to link armour and elemental resistance, you might as well simply give more elemental resistances to armour nodes and/or make some elemental resistance +%armour mods, rather than trying some potentially game-breaking method.


lol.

Everything suggested in this thread is a potential game-breaking method. This thread can also be read like: "I don't want to ever die while playing poe" which is the same as: "i just want to minimize the risk of taking a bad call and die" wich also may be like: "i want to stomp hard on the A.I. with raw stats".

Giving more survival it's not fun, i mean, we are supposed to die (eventually, but die). Also, there are ways of making this less "risky". Just think about it. The solutions are already in-game. Armor has nothing to do with this.


you aren't really adding anything to the convo, bro.

you have provided zero evidence/new ideas/proof of your claims other than "the solutions are in the game".

Don't need clueless trollerinos posting here.


Im not being a troll, im just saying Armor is not the root of the problem. It's a personal opinion of how i feel the game while i play it.

why not? (you may ask)

A: Devs already must have tested dmg vs armor/life-regen. I would bet it. They just don't realease stuff like: "hm..im..in the mood of.. 12*A vs/per 1*dmg.. yeah..im a genius, that should suffice". No, i bet they roll some tests first to see if they missed something.

I would agree some mobs hit pretty hard if you are just rolling a casual quantity of armor. Famous "gearcheck" phases. It's part of the game, take your time to farm and build up.
"
B34C0N wrote:

A: Devs already must have tested dmg vs armor/life-regen. I would bet it.

They did, ofc.

It was a conscious design decision to make armor work greatly against small hits, but not so great against bigger hits.
That's how the formula works, and that's how it's supposed to work.
There's a quote with "armor will help when being hit by needles, but not when run over by a truck" by one of the designers, and he is kinda right.
3.5 build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2299519
I agree completely.

Armor in it's current state is completely useless.
As in - every build that is utilizing armor would be more efficient by simply using lightning coil/defiance and dropping the points/gear you spend on armor.

free bump.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info