The sad state that is Armor

I've a question: what's the problem with scrapping the notion that armor reduces a flat amount and just make it entirely % based?
Fixes the problem where big hits are currently (for most intents and purposes) impossible to deal with outside of Lightning Coil, MoM or the blodge/evade combo, but leaves them a little more vulnerable to lots of little hits (which let's be honest, there are plenty of means to mitigate as is and are no real threat)

Sure numbers all around the place will need to be tweaked, but I thought that's how armor did work. Apparently it doesn't. Why not?

because that is how armor actually works, that is why plate armor was so powerful until the gun became the standard of warfare.


it could deflect light crap , but concentrated blows would go right through. espcially warhammers , plate armor didn't do shit against warhammers

"

Natharias wrote:

Two things:

1. Hell fucking no. Armor is meant to counter physical damage, and if it can counter elemental damage then there is no reason to have resistances. No resistances means a ton of wasted mods on a lot of items for a lot of builds, and armor will become more powerful than Lightning Coil and Mjolner.

2. How does evasion do anything against elemental damage? Oh, wait, it doesn't. Dodge does, but it is not evasion. Dodge is also a lot harder to get and is more costly than armor or evasion.

1. may be becouse the reduction gain from armor will never be as good as the reduction gain from resistance? we are talking about 60-70% at best oposed to resistances that can go all the way up to 8x%+, olso you seem to forget the cant block part too

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

because that is how armor actually works, that is why plate armor was so powerful until the gun became the standard of warfare.


it could deflect light crap , but concentrated blows would go right through. espcially warhammers , plate armor didn't do shit against warhammers

lets try not to mix reality with fiction.

Damage Reduction Factor = Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) )

change 12 to 11, armour is kinda fine right now, no need to overbuff it

it is already possible to tank vaal and dom

"

caboom wrote:

1. may be becouse the reduction gain from armor will never be as good as the reduction gain from resistance? we are talking about 60-70% at best oposed to resistances that can go all the way up to 8x%+, olso you seem to forget the cant block part too

I ignored it for a reason. I don't see why GGG would put a mod that prevents a character from taking advantage of a defense.

So seeing how it would reduce the damage and still allow you to block, it would be overpowered.

"

caboom wrote:

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

So seeing how elemental damage is a lot less of a problem than physical, shouldn't mixing dodge and evasion be a little easier than getting armor?

"

Natharias wrote:

"

caboom wrote:

1. may be becouse the reduction gain from armor will never be as good as the reduction gain from resistance? we are talking about 60-70% at best oposed to resistances that can go all the way up to 8x%+, olso you seem to forget the cant block part too

I ignored it for a reason. I don't see why GGG would put a mod that prevents a character from taking advantage of a defense.

So seeing how it would reduce the damage and still allow you to block, it would be overpowered.

"

caboom wrote:

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

So seeing how elemental damage is a lot less of a problem than physical, shouldn't mixing dodge and evasion be a little easier than getting armor?

woah woah woah what the hell man, the exact opposite is true . evasion dodge and mom builds can face tank physical perfectly , and they handle elemental much better than armor builds on account of acrobatics.

the only weakness evasion has is spells , physical or elemental and then reflect. but lets get real if you are a physical build , you really should be rocking the ir so you can double dip on defense stats and potions anyway.

"

Natharias wrote:

"

caboom wrote:

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

Not sure if you've read this thread, but I'd say the exact opposite is true.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

"

caboom wrote:

1. may be becouse the reduction gain from armor will never be as good as the reduction gain from resistance? we are talking about 60-70% at best oposed to resistances that can go all the way up to 8x%+, olso you seem to forget the cant block part too

I ignored it for a reason. I don't see why GGG would put a mod that prevents a character from taking advantage of a defense.

So seeing how it would reduce the damage and still allow you to block, it would be overpowered.

"

caboom wrote:

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

So seeing how elemental damage is a lot less of a problem than physical, shouldn't mixing dodge and evasion be a little easier than getting armor?

woah woah woah what the hell man, the exact opposite is true . evasion dodge and mom builds can face tank physical perfectly , and they handle elemental much better than armor builds on account of acrobatics.

the only weakness evasion has is spells , physical or elemental and then reflect. but lets get real if you are a physical build , you really should be rocking the ir so you can double dip on defense stats and potions anyway.

Learn to read what I said.

An actual hit is something that deals damage, because it hit. I also said only the best armor builds can mitigate it. This means they probably use LC instead of an armor chest, use e-charges, and use Granite flasks.

If I was talking about avoidance builds facetanking a boss in general, I would've said something else entirely.

"

TikoXi wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

"

caboom wrote:

2. evasion can get dodge to mitigate elemental without any real penalty, can you say the same about armor?

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

Not sure if you've read this thread, but I'd say the exact opposite is true.

Read above.

"

Natharias wrote:

Learn to read what I said.

An actual hit is something that deals damage, because it hit. I also said only the best armor builds can mitigate it. This means they probably use LC instead of an armor chest, use e-charges, and use Granite flasks.

If I was talking about avoidance builds facetanking a boss in general, I would've said something else entirely.

"

TikoXi wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

Evasion, dodge, and MoM builds cannot facetank an actual hit from a high physical damage boss. The best of the armor builds can.

Not sure if you've read this thread, but I'd say the exact opposite is true.

Read above.

Sooooo....

You're actually saying that armor sucks, and you need to resort to the same mechanics that this thread has been saying for 3 pages like Lightning coil, MoM, enruance charges and immortal call because high values of armor are worthless due to the mechanic being fundementally flawed?

Good to know we're all in agreement afterall. I recommend reading the thread you're posting in before you go disagreeing with it.

"

TikoXi wrote:

Sooooo....

You're actually saying that armor sucks, and you need to resort to the same mechanics that this thread has been saying for 3 pages like Lightning coil, MoM, enruance charges and immortal call because high values of armor are worthless due to the mechanic being fundementally flawed?

Good to know we're all in agreement afterall. I recommend reading the thread you're posting in before you go disagreeing with it.

I've always said armor sucks. The only reasonable time to use it is if you have perfect gear due to near unlimited currency.

Perhaps you should read my posts before saying I'm the one not reading?