"You need less life on tree"

I know what you were trying to say, but I see no reason to take "(EHP after adding in a new node)/(EHP before adding in the node)" into account here. Your maths holds up, but it is irrelevant.

The maximum life you gain via life nodes is linear, based on your flat life.
There's no diminishing return in it.

A true "diminishing return" can be seen in your Evasion rating.
Going from +0% to +100% Evasion rating will usually not end up doubling your "chance to evade", while going from +0% to +100% life will double your HP.

The post you originally quoted:

"

The best way should be to establish "dimishing returns" on life nodes once a defined total %life is reached, or a maximum total %.

If all normal life nodes would have stayed at 8% instead of 5-6%, and there would be a "diminishing returns" mechanic for life gain, it would actually have been "you need less life on tree" (obviously).

There's nothing wrong about that thought, and your answer didn't do anything to prove it wrong.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

I know what you were trying to say, but I see no reason to take "(EHP after adding in a new node)/(EHP before adding in the node)" into account here. Your maths holds up, but it is irrelevant.

The maximum life you gain via life nodes is linear, based on your flat life.
There's no diminishing return in it.

No, but adding some amount of HP has varying effects depending on mitigation. +100 HP is going to be more useful to someone with 1000 HP and 80% damage reduction than 5000 HP and 0% damage reduction. Taking multiplicative change captures that idea a bit better.

Of course, if all you care about is absolute change in HP, there are no diminishing returns to life nodes.

"

Autocthon wrote:

"

RaGoNXIII wrote:

Since that "bloodmagic is now better than it ever was" words from Chris (they even buffed it to 60% from that initial 30%), I take all these kind of quotes from him like jokes. It was obvious after his words, at least for me, that with the new tree we would have to invest the same number of skill points in life, and that's how it is right now. I had a small hope that they would maintain the same %, reduce the number of points and scatter them through the tree, but not.

MC was never 30%. And technically BM is actually better than it ever was because higher base life and more readily available regeneration has massively increased usability.

The viability at top tier is a different matter, though it's much closer to viable than it was before patch. I managed an accidental 240% life in a 100 point build. Now if only we can make auras non-mandatory. At which point I would happily run an aura or two on life.

Mortal conviction was 30% initially. They buffed to 40% and now to 60%. If you want to talk about something, at least talk about something you know lol. They didn't tested it property. I was talking about a statement Chris made when they released that reworked tree with a 30% MC that noone was able to run. And the wrong propaganda continues with another false statement.

And well, yeah if you travel from marauder to templar, scion and duelist life nodes without getting any damage you will be able to reach tath life % at 100 points, but "you don't take less life in the tree".

Can confirm RaGoNXIII that MC was initially 30%. I remember the raging debates about whether it should be buffed to 40% or 50%.

And yeah, Chris' "What if I told there's less need for Life nodes on the tree..." quote turned out to be pretty misleading. But I think they'll reexamine it eventually, he wouldn't do that on purpose. Just like with BM/MC, which I think is in a fine place now.

Now if only we could get GGG to fix BM-granting items so that they grant both BM and MC... seriously.

"

Alea wrote:

"

gh0un wrote:

Less life on tree my ass.
If they wanted to reduce the amount of lifenodes that we have to take, they should have buffed base life without nerfing all the lifenodes on the tree to nullify the baselife buff.

Problem is some "builds" only taking life & regen, like RF...

Well not SOME builds , there's only RF and if they change half of the game just to balance one skill then something is horribly wrong

"

Autocthon wrote:

The viability at top tier is a different matter, though it's much closer to viable than it was before patch. I managed an accidental 240% life in a 100 point build. Now if only we can make auras non-mandatory. At which point I would happily run an aura or two on life.

If you enjoy doing no damage and single 66 in 30 mins then gl hf

"

Peterlerock wrote:

@OP

"You need less life on the tree" is misleading. You need about the same amount of skillpoints in life nodes in 1.2 to get to the same amount of maximum hp you had in 1.1.

But what you actually can do, is not take too many life nodes while levelling (as your health pool grows slightly faster than before).

It's not true. I did the exact same build in nemesis , now in beyond (same path , same nodes taken) around level 60 I had 2.5k life (nemesis 3.7k) at level 70 got to 3.2k (nemesis around 4.5-5k) and ofc gear matters but the change is huge. Getting good clear speed and surviving is ultra hard because you lack like 10-20 points. Now you can't even really tell that you took life node , it increases in super small ammount.

my dualwield Vaal Pact claw duellist needed the same amount of skillpoints in life than before to get the same amount of Life (3.5k) then before.
I'd even have more life than before, but the change was aa HUGE nerf to my Carnage Heart.
now -25% life is a really big penalty. Wish they'd have adjusted this too.

I dont like the claw nerf (less life leech..) that much, but the diualwield buff makes it ok :-)

But around the Templar-witch-shadow part of the skill tree it is really hard to get enough life now. Maybe you should do life ES hybrid builds now, but for now going Ci is the only viable option for me right now doing a build in the templar-witch-shadow part...

I have 138% life on tree, an avg of 72 life on my gear, 170 strenght at level 73 and i have 4050 life.

After i take all life nodes in the life wheel in scion area i will have more than 5k life, overall i spent less points than before to achieve 5k life treshold.

For me the "need less life on tree" statement stands true for now

"

Mahesys wrote:

I have 138% life on tree, an avg of 72 life on my gear, 170 strenght at level 73 and i have 4050 life.

After i take all life nodes in the life wheel in scion area i will have more than 5k life, overall i spent less points than before to achieve 5k life treshold.

For me the "need less life on tree" statement stands true for now

Unfortunately for anyone on the right side of the tree, this isn't true.

I lost over 600 HP on my build, from 5050 down to 4400-ish.

The main problem is that the multiplier has been lowered from, in most cases, over 200% to just over 100%, and that means that you get a LOT less life on gear. Do the math, at 60 HP average on five pieces of gear, going from 280% life as I had to 140%, that's 140% less overall. 60x5x1.4=420 HP. Versus pre-patch, where it would be 60x5x2.8=840 HP. You are losing out on 420 HP just from gear multipliers alone, and this is shoddy gear!

I thought that perhaps this would be balanced by weaker mobs, but it's the exact opposite, especially with the buffed difficulty to maps. Stuff I used to cruise on before from 71 maps now nearly make me die. High level maps and bosses with their two-shot mechanics? It's nonsense.

I love the game but I have no doubt in my mind that the balancing team has no idea what they're doing, they just tinker with things to see what works without proper testing.

Mhm, recent tree changes devastated the high level maxed chars.
All are affected, not just the right side of the tree, which was truly fucked up.
I have a duelist that lost almost 700 HP, with same nodes investments - from 6k to 5.3k. And it fuckin matters, it's a huge loss. The higher the level, the more precious every life point is, because of the high secondary defences and regen, and the content difficulty combined with severe spike damage.

I still don't get it why it was needed, combined with the increased difficulty at high levels.
End game content was always hard to play, no matter the gear and HP pool.

About PoE balance team - speak no ill of the dead.

"

torturo wrote:

Mhm, recent tree changes devastated the high level maxed chars.
All are affected, not just the right side of the tree, which was truly fucked up.
I have a duelist that lost almost 700 HP, with same nodes investments - from 6k to 5.3k. And it fuckin matters, it's a huge loss. The higher the level, the more precious every life point is, because of the high secondary defences and regen, and the content difficulty combined with severe spike damage.

I still don't get it why it was needed, combined with the increased difficulty at high levels.
End game content was always hard to play, no matter the gear and HP pool.

About PoE balance team - speak no ill of the dead.

+1

Overall I still feel like nemesis time was the most balanced time for the game (ofc snapshot summoners were broken , without them perfect state of game imo)