The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game

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Atomgun wrote:
I don't think specters need a buff because of a single fight and every build needs to have it's flaw. Summoners shine in map clearing but have a lower survivablity in boss fights.

I think that specters need to be saved on logout. If GGG sees them as a temp minion then they should just get rid of the life nodes on the tree and put a time limit on the life of the specters. The process of finding your minions everytime is tedious and a repetitive process that has become necessary for any summoner. What is worse is that only a few minions are ever used. So maybe they should just make gems that summon specific specters or fix it by making the specter level based on gem level instead of map. No other builds suffer power penalties for going outside of their level so why should a summoner? There are plenty of other penalties for playing in lower level maps.


They need numerous changes, the least of which is to allow us the basics of weighting their AI decisions like so many other games have done and fixes to their pathing nodes. That way we can pick their patrol range, targeting focus, aggro range, skill use frequency and so on. Games have allowed this since the super nintendo...


Beyond that there is always that in this game everything that matters is hitting like a nuclear bomb (elemental or chaos AoEs + DoTs are brutal to a summoner) so anything that actually matters will rip through spectres/zombies/guardian like wet tissue paper, where everything below that cannot put much of a dent in them... if any at all.

And who really cares about summons surviving trivial content that anything else can anyway, most people will be cruising through that content clearing whole screens with single aoe attacks anyway. But this is a issue endemic in the entire game as 90% of it is a cakewalk that cannot damage you and 10% of it is 'wtf? insta-dead when I blinked' damage that is best skipped or alt-f4'd.
Last edited by Jiero on Aug 29, 2014, 1:32:19 PM
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Atomgun wrote:
I don't think specters need a buff because of a single fight and every build needs to have it's flaw. Summoners shine in map clearing but have a lower survivablity in boss fights.

I think that specters need to be saved on logout. If GGG sees them as a temp minion then they should just get rid of the life nodes on the tree and put a time limit on the life of the specters. The process of finding your minions everytime is tedious and a repetitive process that has become necessary for any summoner. What is worse is that only a few minions are ever used. So maybe they should just make gems that summon specific specters or fix it by making the specter level based on gem level instead of map. No other builds suffer power penalties for going outside of their level so why should a summoner? There are plenty of other penalties for playing in lower level maps.


Atziri is just the prime example for what I have been stressing about.
Look at how awful Spectres are in lvl76, 77 and 78 Maps. In case you are able to witness certain players or perhaps yourself able to do all kind of maps above lvl76 without issue of Spectres dying too fast, then take a look at the cost needed to choke up their survivability.

Spectres are worst than Zombie in high end maps without a fortune standby for gearings. In fact, both Zombies and Spectres are rich man build.

You really need to try ultra high end maps instead of taking my only repetitive example of Atziri as a conclusion for your statement.
Spectres are weak in every lvl76and beyond Maps.

Due to the high AOE elemental damage that exist thoughout this game, they are so vulnerable and exposed to short life frame.
Perhaps you are lucky to roll non-DMG influencial rolls on high lvl maps to be able to point out non dying spectres but try to roll and spend all your chaos in rolling safe mods just for the sake of Spectres survival.

Indeed, Spectres got to be a saved feature like Animated Guardian. Its so troublesome to find them everytime they are dead or after the player has logout.
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☻ ☻ ☻ Downfall of Zombie and Spectre in 1.2 Patch ☻ ☻ ☻
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1019959
Last edited by bunnyxian901 on Aug 29, 2014, 2:41:56 PM
Look at this shit.



Spent 3ex on it and its near useless.

4 zombies
12k life at lvl 19
4200 dps pathetic

Even regular domi can kill em.
Tey need 10k armor as well.


The only reason not going srs is because that will get nerfed to hell.
Summoners will die.
Some patches later the zombies will get buffed since nobody plays summoner again
Vorici can shove his fuse up his [removed]
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Earthslug wrote:
Look at this shit.



Spent 3ex on it and its near useless.

4 zombies
12k life at lvl 19
4200 dps pathetic

Even regular domi can kill em.
Tey need 10k armor as well.


The only reason not going srs is because that will get nerfed to hell.
Summoners will die.
Some patches later the zombies will get buffed since nobody plays summoner again
.

Really ? My 7k zombies have issues getting to 70% HP against him
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Earthslug wrote:
Look at this shit.



Spent 3ex on it and its near useless.

4 zombies
12k life at lvl 19
4200 dps pathetic

Even regular domi can kill em.
Tey need 10k armor as well.


The only reason not going srs is because that will get nerfed to hell.
Summoners will die.
Some patches later the zombies will get buffed since nobody plays summoner again



It won't work that well with Monstregul Grasp alone. The most solid method to utilize it is to use with +2 Helm, Minion Life, and +2/+3 Empower Gem. You can reach close to 20k HP for Zombies but at the amount of 4 only which can tank most of the high AOE elemental DMG from boss and etc (Not inclusing ultra end maps)
Monstregul is meant for upgrading the defense and survivability of Zombies and never used for DPS at all.
If your build consisting of Monstregul in it, then you must use Spectres for DPS instead which are flawless in early to end game til the point around lvl 75ish Map.

However, if you intend to make your build more viable with the tanky Zombies throughout the game, Spectres are useless, which you are required to have Summon Raging Spirit which every builds are using.

The way you are just using a single Monstregul Grasp without those items I have mentioned, there is no way your Zombies can be better than without using it.

I saw you linked your SRS with just an Echo and Splash, which is not a good idea at all.
If that is your main DPS SRS, you should change it to at least 5 linked output.
SRS is meant for DPS and nothing else.
I Love This Game Now, Being a Summoner Hardly Associated with Desync ♫

♥ ♥ ♥ My Shop http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/887292 ♥ ♥ ♥
☻ ☻ ☻ Downfall of Zombie and Spectre in 1.2 Patch ☻ ☻ ☻
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1019959
Last edited by bunnyxian901 on Aug 30, 2014, 1:44:56 AM
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Saltychipmunk wrote:


Really ? My 7k zombies have issues getting to 70% HP against him


Yes

he kills one from time to time. I am pushing them to the limits tho.
I could convocate them more during "light of -10%"

also if one dies... 1 mouse click makes a new one np here
a lost spectre is megafail in that case




Vorici can shove his fuse up his [removed]
Well Dominus is easy unless you meat him in a map :P

I just wait were he comes down, place corpses there (desecrate also tells your minions to stay at that place) and run away exploding them with Fleshoffering and the next thing I see is Dominus porting to the lower right to change forms.

This fight is just trivial and to be honest the loss in dps with Montreguls is not worth it. Because it makes Minions worse at the things they are good at without really helping with the situations they are bad.

Maybe if you put them in a +1 Chest with Empower and using the 2% Regeneration-Helmet with Block... but then again you lose so much Zombie DPS + the ability to use 6l Spectres that it is propably not worth it.
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Emphasy wrote:
Well Dominus is easy unless you meat him in a map :P

I just wait were he comes down, place corpses there (desecrate also tells your minions to stay at that place) and run away exploding them with Fleshoffering and the next thing I see is Dominus porting to the lower right to change forms.

This fight is just trivial and to be honest the loss in dps with Montreguls is not worth it. Because it makes Minions worse at the things they are good at without really helping with the situations they are bad.

Maybe if you put them in a +1 Chest with Empower and using the 2% Regeneration-Helmet with Block... but then again you lose so much Zombie DPS + the ability to use 6l Spectres that it is propably not worth it.



Dominus fight at Sceptre of God is always easy if a summoner have a right gears.
As you said, Monstregul meant to make Zombie tanky alongside with other items for that purpose. Its to supply extra defensive measure for other form of DPS factor for the summoner.
Monstregul is a good item, but definitely still useless in most cases of Summoner build.
Since, summoner builds are mostly build around DPS elements and cast speed if SRS and fast resummoning of Zombies are part of it.

Players will use Monstregul if they are willing to lose the Cast Speed potential in weapon slot or perhaps Mana Regeneration for an odd build. However, I failed to see any kind of successful build requires Monstregul for any purpose. The weapon slot can be occupied by much better weapon in any kind of build.

I Love This Game Now, Being a Summoner Hardly Associated with Desync ♫

♥ ♥ ♥ My Shop http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/887292 ♥ ♥ ♥
☻ ☻ ☻ Downfall of Zombie and Spectre in 1.2 Patch ☻ ☻ ☻
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1019959
Last edited by bunnyxian901 on Aug 30, 2014, 6:10:38 AM
Montregul needs more buff.

Spoiler


Zombies deal 400% dmg.
Only way to make em viable i think
Or 10k armor


They are good meatshield but a simple evangelist spectre outclasses them in dps by far.
If the spectres dies, and they die often, dps is gone.


My friend is going srs while i go oldschool minions.
So far mine is better.
But have a feeling he'll be catching on me


Noob question,
I read desecrate keeps minions in place?
Wtf?
Any more info on this pls?
Vorici can shove his fuse up his [removed]
or they are just not meant to be able to go that high.
Think of it...

>>

just take all minion tree nodes, can be done around lvl 65. (easy)
get some average gear and cap resists. (easy, 10-30c)
get gems to lvl 20 and a decent 5 link. (just play to lvl 86+-)
>>>
go farm atziri


hmmm would be too easy probably?
Vorici can shove his fuse up his [removed]

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