The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game

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Earthslug wrote:

Those spectres would still be the same as my build was lvl 65.
And this would be the ONLY in game build not viabe at at atziri even if level 10 gazillion

och please.. cut it

there is a guy doing atziri wearing Lorica. how much cheaper you want it to be?

uber is another story because most builds CANNOT do uber, but with vanila atziri zombies/spectres are possible, viable and cheap

contrary to '200ex builds only' cries.

but it is easier to whine more so maybe a viable build/spec gets buffed to outrageous level (srs)

Sidtherat,

I hope you stop pointing other Summoner's build and proof it yourself.
Of course, with less than 200 exalts build.

Remind yourself not to get carried away with one or two videos showing a lucky "escape near death" gameplay in Maps and conclude there is no problem with the build.

If you unable to show its possible with such easy setup that you have been mentioned frequently for a legit debate, then I don't think we are buying your points.

Of course, I can make a video playing lvl78 Map Palace with Solaris Lorica, and take out my Shavronne. I have 1 death out of 3 playthroughs in hard map mods in lvl78 Palace and I just take the lucky successful runs and record it to show to the eyes of half-baked players.
It seems successful, because its the only successful run being recorded.

In addition, No real choices there, the player still using +2 Minion Helm and preferred a good ES on it and Necromantic Aegis which is debatable. Due to the flaws in the Zombies and Spectres, players are forced using the same end game items to be viable.

You buy it, because you don't know the true nature behind the build.
You have never been there, you have never try it and you conclude a remote point of disagreement based on others build.

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Remind yourself not to get carried away with one or two videos showing a lucky "escape near death" gameplay

Was going to post this now...
u did it already

on lvl 65 my spectre has 7000 life (fictional)
on lvl 10.000 my spectre has... uhm... 7000 life


A viable build = a build that needs 1 portal and not depends 70% on luck

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IF I keep playing this build untill lvl 100 my spectres would still die to that same dominus.
Yes, as they hit lvl 18 it only happens rarely and will only get better at lvl 20.

BUT

even then they can die to dominus.

This shouldn't be common at all. At level 65, I think your Spectres are around level 16 to 18. Assuming you are using the level 68 Undying Evangelist, they should not be dying. Especially since there is a 10% buff across the board for the gem. That means that the new level 16 gem is probably stronger than the old level 18 gem.
On the other hand, at level 65, your Zombies will have trouble surviving, assuming you are using the +2 Minion Helmet. You need to have Zombies around level 17 + 2 (19) to have a good survival rate against Dominus. They will die, but you should be able to resummon without much issue, since it is on a 4-link, so it shouldn't be THAT costly.
All this assumes you are using Minion Life as one of your Supports.

Now, the more relevant question is how are you surviving Dominus at level 65? I don't think you would have the defenses necessary to survive his hits.

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on lvl 65 my spectre has 7000 life (fictional)
on lvl 10.000 my spectre has... uhm... 7000 life

Depends on the Spectre. I believe the big Statues from Garden (level 66) has what I would guess above 20k hp after bonuses. However, they aren't really good for anything other than tanking. And you'll need Purity of Elements, because of their lack of elemental resists. But if you can get their resists to 75%, they should be incredibly hard to kill.
There are also the auric champions and colossus on that level 70 map. These are used pretty much strictly for tanking, since I don't find their damage to be that amazing.

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sidtherat wrote:

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Earthslug wrote:

Those spectres would still be the same as my build was lvl 65.
And this would be the ONLY in game build not viabe at at atziri even if level 10 gazillion

och please.. cut it

there is a guy doing atziri wearing Lorica. how much cheaper you want it to be?

uber is another story because most builds CANNOT do uber, but with vanila atziri zombies/spectres are possible, viable and cheap

Interesting, with how many deaths. Per map... with shitty ES, no regen, no stun immunity etc.

I think there are a few possible ways to buff minions to make zombie/spectre build viable. Let's discuss this one by one.

Suggestions:

GROUP A: Raise Spectre

1) Spectres can now benefit from all rare mods, with maximum of x mods? For example, storm herald, extra cold attack etc. With this, we can tune our spectres to become tanky or dps dealers, all depending on the summoner.

2) Spectres have additional max elemental/ chaos resist. Elemental resists relies on purity of elements/ice/lightning/fire. However, there is no aura to buff chaos resist. A lot of map bosses can kill spectres due to low armor/resists.


GROUP B: Raise Zombie

1) Zombies need to have more armor and hp. They die to basically anything in map 77 and above. Even blue mobs can kill the zombies with certain mods combination.

2) ZOmbies need more damage and attack speed. Their damage is too low compared to other builds, and they miss a lot on their attacks.



These suggestions sound op but it is actually not because of the reduce mana reservation being nerfed, monsters become harder, snapshot is removed, no minion nodes being buffed, aura nerf, etc. The buff for zombies/spectres cannot even be compared to other builds.

So, what do you guys think? Do you think my suggestions are overpowered?

Your suggestion for Raise Spectre is beyond OP. Allowing Nemesis mods on Spectres is too much. There are enough mods that make the game trivial, like Soul Eater, Proximity Shield, etc.

a painfully simple fix to this would allow summoners to summon specters independent of area level.

ie if you have a level 20 desecrate you should be able to get high level specters easy. you leveled the gem to twenty you should be able to use end game specters easily.

I have never for a second understood all these weird level limitations placed on specters. What about specters could possibly be more over powered than a build with a mirror weapon?

The easiest solution for this would be to just let us imprint a spectre of our choice onto the skill and have it scale with the current zone level. When the spectre dies it just needs any corpse and then we can summon again without any problem in maps.

In the current game if your spectres took a Dominus smash or a flameblast to the face in maps there goes all your DPS. Sure I could continue to summon zombies over and over again but they do no damage. I have tried clearing maps before using only zombies, they take forever to kill anything.

But it's like I said before, for the amount of work and effort and points we put into the minion nodes it is just not worth it as you're better off playing SRS the current FOTM. You lose a lot of defense and self-cast damage. I have no problem losing self-cast damage but I have a problem with the defense part and the piss poor mechanics of spectres and zombies. There is no way to protect myself now because I do no damage and have poor defense. I rely on my minions to do all the tanking and DPS. But the AI is so stupid that you will die a lot in maps trying to level up.

The #1 thing I hated fighting the most in maps were elite/champ that had AoE i.e. Storm Herald. I feared this the most because I knew with 100% certainty that I would lose at least 3 of my 4 spectres or I would lose them all including my zombies. Once your spectres die there is nothing the zombies can do to save you because they literally do no damage so the Storm Herald boss just pretty much rapes the rest of your zombies and take you along with them.

It was even 10x worse before the Desecrate gem was released. When you fought bosses all your spectres died and all your zombies died. And then you rely on a skeleton totem to get you through the boss fights because eventually you ran out of corpses on the ground to summon zombies. It's sort of semi-fixed with the Desecrate gem but there is nothing for spectres. They die, oops there goes your DPS.

I've been playing summoner since open beta and it's still not good though they barely did anything to make them useable in end-game. It was the worst before the Desecrated gem got released. I did Olmec's Sanctum with my friends and guess what I was fighting the boss with after I ran out of corpses to summon zombies from. Yup, skeleton totem on a boss.

They really do need to fix spectres, if they're going to make the spectres have crappy life and good DPS at least let us imprint them into our skils so we won't have a DPS problem. Cause like others have said, I have NEVER seen any other class or build lose that much DPS to the point where they are just gimped inside a map or boss fight. If you ask me, I think this is ridiculous.

Storm herald fangerous? I can understand domino lightning or cells gmp boss but storm herald does pitfull dmg to stuff with capped resists and you CAN easily cap zombies resists. Same applies to spectres.

Sp3ll block on necro aegis solves this problem completely

As for builds that get gimped in long solo fights - noncrit build with resist flasks. 2 uses and you are empty. And it hurts much more than killing a boss with zombies

Btw do not underestimate manually cast skeletons