The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game

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sidtherat wrote:

meanwhile people that take their time to think instead of whine seem to be doing quite fine:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1033467

without 200ex gear ofc

Nothing new.

The fact remains, zombies are replaceable.

The evang dies, its over.


Tho i may try it on perm.

Hmm... wasn't this the consent all the time?

Atziri is still doable, Uber is not. Again the main issue is the Spectre-Death. With 4 of them however it is fairly easy to always have a shield up, greatly reducing the chance of all of them dying. You propably have to get new ones after the Trio, because they likely kill them, but besides this they should survive.

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Emphasy wrote:

Hmm... wasn't this the consent all the time?

Atziri is still doable, Uber is not. Again the main issue is the Spectre-Death. With 4 of them however it is fairly easy to always have a shield up, greatly reducing the chance of all of them dying. You propably have to get new ones after the Trio, because they likely kill them, but besides this they should survive.

If you were able to somehow re-make em without having to waste portals... that would settle all for me.

I played in party yesterday, bad luck, an exile killed 2 out of 3 spectre.
End of my partyplay basically.

Dps setback at 33%


And no, raising some dumb local map archer or rhoa is going to do much good.

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GrumpyBear5043 wrote:

Wish I had seen this post before respeccing my summoner.

I used to enjoy doing maps with my Summoner "NO SRS" with ease, but now I run screaming all the time, that is if I don't die in the process. "DIESYNC"

I hadn't tried Atziri and was hoping to do so, but obviously not anymore with the feedback in this post.

I for one don't even use a shield, but use The Queen's Decree so I don't take Necromantic Aegis, which in hindsight is a bad choice I made it seems.

Yes summoners suck in end game content more than ever now. I also wish they would give those stupid Zombies some better AI, why do the Skeletons attack and behave as they should, yet the Spectres and Zombies still stand around looking pretty unless you use convocation and direct them at a target somehow. They should at least have the AI to attack and target properly.

GrumpyBear, thanks for your time for posting.

Many players playing as summoner who focused on Zombies and Spectres would not give their thoughts here. Most of the time, such players have already using the top notch if not near perfect gears by playing this build.
The insight is not given due to their achievement has been reached with their hundreds and hundreds of exalts build cost. No one wish to step up to give any form of suggestion, no one bother to spend their time to reevaluate their achievement is none other than fortune of invesment, no one care if their build has no real choice because most of the players care about what they can do with their build regardless cost and repetitive gearings with investment.

I hope I am not too late for giving 2 cents on the flaws.

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sidtherat wrote:

meanwhile people that take their time to think instead of whine seem to be doing quite fine:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1033467

without 200ex gear ofc

Welcome back.

Players that made a theorycraft in Build section are not a throughout conclusion on the flaws of Zombies and Spectres in late game.

First of all, we haven't even able to witness how is his survival in dozen and dozen of runs of lvl76s and onward Maps.
Of all people, you are unable to show "I'm doing fine" with a lower than 200ex build gears as a summoner and calling everyone here giving their thoughts are whinning just because you can point a theorycraft build?

Pointing at the success of others without a true understanding of the nature of their build is never a good idea. Right now, the link you have posted here indeed showing a budgeted theorycraft build but does that make any difference?

Any variation there? Empower is used, Shavronne Wrapping is still the best item, meanwhile Solaris Lorica is escaping the reality of where the summoner exposed to real threat with much lower ES.
No real choices there, the player still using +2 Minion Helm and preferred a good ES on it and Necromantic Aegis which is debatable.
Lets get reminded that, by taking Necromantic Aegis, you barely able to survive even at certain low level maps.

Wait until that player able to show dozens and dozens of recorded gameplays running all kind of Maps without issue, then we call that successful with budget build. Remind yourself not to get carried away with one or two videos showing a lucky "escape near death" gameplay in Maps and conclude there is no problem with the build.

I hope you stop pointing other Summoner's build and proof it yourself.
Of course, with less than 200 exalts build.

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Emphasy wrote:

Hmm... wasn't this the consent all the time?

Atziri is still doable, Uber is not. Again the main issue is the Spectre-Death. With 4 of them however it is fairly easy to always have a shield up, greatly reducing the chance of all of them dying. You propably have to get new ones after the Trio, because they likely kill them, but besides this they should survive.

Doable with 200 ex build.
Any build lower than that cost has much lower successive runs in ultra end game maps.
No one up until now able to proof how viable Summoner is in late game with a lower cost build.
All builds have the same kind of setup, no variation, no real choice, ended up in a same circulation of gemmings and gearing for end game.

The whole time, players are just covering their insight on the fact that there is no real choice by tweaking the type of cheaper gears to cope up with much more expensive one.
The ultimate ending is always using the much more expensive gears and the budgeted build is just an illusion of success for half-baked players.

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Earthslug wrote:

If you were able to somehow re-make em without having to waste portals... that would settle all for me.
I played in party yesterday, bad luck, an exile killed 2 out of 3 spectre.
End of my partyplay basically.
Dps setback at 33%

Undeniable truth, Spectres meta suffers from their maintenance of survival.
Its tedious to resummon the specifc Spectres being used as well, most of the time, we just give up looking for them when running Maps.

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I don't know shit about srs so how can I compare it to my current build.
my frecking spectres keep dying on stupid dominus thats all I care for.

Your minions should only die rarely to Dominus on Cruel and Merciless. On Normal, they are still weak, so yeah, they will die, but Dominus isn't very hard on Normal.

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Undeniable truth, Spectres meta suffers from their maintenance of survival.
Its tedious to resummon the specifc Spectres being used as well, most of the time, we just give up looking for them when running Maps.

This is the one issue I take with Spectres. It is hard to find the ones you want later in the game.
But you should know that Spectres seem to have better AI, so it is probably worth it to test out some new ones and see how they fare.

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Starxsword wrote:

But you should know that Spectres seem to have better AI, so it is probably worth it to test out some new ones and see how they fare.

Thanks for the heads-up.

so really the only thing ggg needs to do to fix the minions , is give them more ways to get over capped resists.

over capped resists are the most important defensive stat in end game , and minions are largely incapable of getting it on their own.

you need to spec into auras and necro aegis with special gear to get them to 80+ resist all, which as we all know just does not cut it.


So what do people think about this idea.

there is a potion node in the witch tree that all together buffs potions, why not change the notable in the bubble to something like this
*special potions provide 50% effectiveness to minions*

what do i mean by special potions?

non mana , non life potions like granite jade , and all the resist flasks . 50% effectiveness + the potion nodes themselves would enable accessible means to get +7 resist all to minions without turning them into a group of 95% all the time rightious fire builds.

or we can just add like+2 over cap to the minion resist node that can help too.

99% of endgame damage that is threatening is elemental.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

99% of endgame damage that is threatening is elemental

Because PoE resist system is exceptionally crappy, heh even in D3 resists are more interesting.

And it's even worse, as they make backdoors in it (+max res) and now as usually, they balance content with assumption, that everybody have overcapped resist.

So as a result, the only way to be successful summoner here is to be walking aura totem, usually quite squishy, not in taking minions passives. And people wanting to play hybrids of any kind are put in disadvantage automatically. That's all about famous, but non existing, build diversity here.

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Starxsword wrote:

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I don't know shit about srs so how can I compare it to my current build.
my frecking spectres keep dying on stupid dominus thats all I care for.

Your minions should only die rarely to Dominus on Cruel and Merciless.

IF I keep playing this build untill lvl 100 my spectres would still die to that same dominus.
Yes, as they hit lvl 18 it only happens rarely and will only get better at lvl 20.

BUT

even then they can die to dominus.

IF for some reason the game would allow me to go to lvl 200 or even lvl 20.000.000,

Those spectres would still be the same as my build was lvl 65.
And this would be the ONLY in game build not viabe at at atziri even if level 10 gazillion


This really is what bothers me.

Look the item in here:

The second stat is use able on minions imo.

Lets add that to the tree or a crappy unique with this stat.

Your minions gain 10 life per lvl up
gain +1 max res per 10 lvl up



Yes I know there are minions capable of her as the example build in this thread.
But on how many atziri runs does a spectre die? Probably every one or if very lucky, maybe a run without minion deaths